no....libertarian is saying that the government basing it's plans on 'corporate welfare' didn't pan out, so to speak
A common sense understanding of the use of language -- any language : If a person goes on for 3 or 4 paragraphs talking about 2 corporations without ever once mentioning the government .. how can anyone draw the conclusion that the person is actually talking about the government ????????????????????????????????????????
Another inconsistency: Libertarian bemoans the collapse of the Erie Canal caused by the technology created by GE and ALCO. GE and ALCO are both PRIVATE SECTOR CORPORATIONS which were financed by PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENT through the 19th Century and most (if not all) of the 20th century .. at least up to the "collapse of the Erie Canal." On the other hand, the Erie Canal, from its proposal in 1817 through the present day operating as part of the New York State Canal System, has been state financed and state run operation. In 1817, Governor DeWitt Clinton got the State Legislature to approve $7 MILLION (according to some calculators this would be the equivalent of $300 million in today's dollars -- although I don't think you could rebuild the original canal for $300 million today) in state money to build the original canal. Between 1817 and 1918, the original Erie Canal was improved a few times but i don't have the figures for what the state spent on those improvements. In 1918, all of the original canal was replaced by the NYS Barge Canal which cost $96.7 MILLION dollars at that time. the State of New York spend $100 million dollars (split roughly 50-50) on operations and capital projects every year on the entire canal system. LONG STORY SHORT - Libertarian is bemoaning the "collapse" of a GOVERNMENT FINANCED and GOVERNMEN RUN canal, which I don't believe ever "collapsed" since it is still operating, at the hands of technological advancements brought by PRIVATE SECTOR FUNDED and PRIVATE SECTOR RUN corporations. Is Libertarian showing his or her true colors? Does he or she actually think that GOVERNMENT FINANCED and GOVERNMENT RUN entities are preferable to PRIVATE SECTOR FINANCED and PRIVATE SECTOR RUN entities?
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
So let me get this straight -- You actually believe that it would have been better if GE and ALCO had NOT invented all of the various things that they invented -- because if they did the other 450,000 people would have settled in Schenectady? How long would GE and ALCO have stayed in business if they had NOT invented anything? How many people would have come (or if already here would have stayed) then?
And you are saying that things would have been so much better off without pensions and health insurance.
Do you actually believe this crap or are you just high on some drug that the Libertarians want to legalize?
I never said that it would have been better if things weren't invented.
For GE it was a monumental success.
For Schenectady it was also, but once transportation costs dropped from these inventions, Schenectady workers became overpriced and unable to compete globally in the manufacturing market.
The city that hauled the world at one time, taught the world to haul our manufacturing jobs away.
Today's political leaders are just as good and/or bad as they were in the 1920's or any other time in history. Clearly, they had to depend on studies and charts like the one drafted by some goober from St. Louis in 1924 who assumed that population would grow by an unreasonably high rate for infinity. For all we know that goober from St. Louis was a pot smoking Libertarian snake-oil salesman .. you know .. like Ron and Rand Paul.
I will agree they are just as pie in the sky delusional today, and totally incapable of knowing the future.
That doesn't stop boneheads like you from your masturbatory fantasies of a great city coming back to life through corporate welfare, astronomic taxing and spending, lavish pensions and medical insurance, that we really can't afford.
planning for the future is not the government's best attribute here in Schenectady....they were blinded by the $$$$ and over extended the future of it's existence.
Today, we have the same pie in the sky delusions of an economic boom that is coming with skyrocketing property values in tow.
I never said that it would have been better if things weren't invented.
For GE it was a monumental success.
For Schenectady it was also, but once transportation costs dropped from these inventions, Schenectady workers became overpriced and unable to compete globally in the manufacturing market.
The city that hauled the world at one time, taught the world to haul our manufacturing jobs away.
You said: "GE and ALCO committed suicide by inventing and building the infrastructure that would lead to the demise of the biggest manufacturing plants in the world 100 years ago."
In other words, their inventions were a bad thing. If they hadn't invented those things - according to your argument - than we would still have manufacturing jobs in the U.S. But how? If we didn't invent the new technologies than we would have nothing to manufacture. If ALCO and GE didn't invent the things that they did than Schenectady's manufacturing base would still be making corn brooms and whatever else was being manufactured here in the 1830's and 1840's.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
Nope - don't see him/her mentioning the government. The Libertarian is clearly blaming our problems on corporations for inventing items and for giving their employees pensions and health insurance.
Absolutely incorrect.
GE in Schenectady only, was a victim of their own creations.
It is the extravagant spending of the government that crippled the local economy when GE moved away to make even more money.
In 1912 GE demanded that the city give them the road that connected the bottom of Broadway Hill with Washington Avenue.
They threatened to leave the city if the city didn't give them the road.
They left anyway and now the entire area where the road was is totally vacant.
They could at least given the road back, after turning their backs on the city and chasing corporate profits by avoiding US regulations and US wages, by sending the jobs out of the country.
Ah I get it, the old "corporate welfare" chestnut. Seems like a round about way to bring that up. Ok, guess I'm out of this discussion since I'm "freeloadin" off of all you working stiffs. See ya.
You aren't freeloading.
You paid taxes just like everyone else.
The tax collectors and the overpaid and over benefited government employees that they finance, are the freeloaders.
GE in Schenectady only, was a victim of their own creations.
It is the extravagant spending of the government that crippled the local economy when GE moved away to make even more money.
In 1912 GE demanded that the city give them the road that connected the bottom of Broadway Hill with Washington Avenue.
They threatened to leave the city if the city didn't give them the road.
They left anyway and now the entire area where the road was is totally vacant.
They could at least given the road back, after turning their backs on the city and chasing corporate profits by avoiding US regulations and US wages, by sending the jobs out of the country.
You very clearly stated that "GE and ALCO committed suicide" and never mentioned government. So are you know saying that YOUR original words were incorrect and that you actually meant to use OTHER WORDS and say SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
GE left the city? Then what company is operating - using the name GE - in all of those buildings down there?
It doesn't employ as many people as once did. But it most certainly did NOT leave the city. Furthermore, it is actually investing money in revitalizing some of its buildings down there.
Did your parents and teachers ever tell you that words actually do have meaning? That you can't say "Jack walked up the hill" and expect others to understand that you really were saying that "Jane parked her car by the harbor." Just a suggestion -- a little clarity in your writing would actually enable others to understand what you are saying.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
A common sense understanding of the use of language -- any language : If a person goes on for 3 or 4 paragraphs talking about 2 corporations without ever once mentioning the government .. how can anyone draw the conclusion that the person is actually talking about the government ????????????????????????????????????????
Another inconsistency: Libertarian bemoans the collapse of the Erie Canal caused by the technology created by GE and ALCO. GE and ALCO are both PRIVATE SECTOR CORPORATIONS which were financed by PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENT through the 19th Century and most (if not all) of the 20th century .. at least up to the "collapse of the Erie Canal." On the other hand, the Erie Canal, from its proposal in 1817 through the present day operating as part of the New York State Canal System, has been state financed and state run operation. In 1817, Governor DeWitt Clinton got the State Legislature to approve $7 MILLION (according to some calculators this would be the equivalent of $300 million in today's dollars -- although I don't think you could rebuild the original canal for $300 million today) in state money to build the original canal. Between 1817 and 1918, the original Erie Canal was improved a few times but i don't have the figures for what the state spent on those improvements. In 1918, all of the original canal was replaced by the NYS Barge Canal which cost $96.7 MILLION dollars at that time. the State of New York spend $100 million dollars (split roughly 50-50) on operations and capital projects every year on the entire canal system. LONG STORY SHORT - Libertarian is bemoaning the "collapse" of a GOVERNMENT FINANCED and GOVERNMEN RUN canal, which I don't believe ever "collapsed" since it is still operating, at the hands of technological advancements brought by PRIVATE SECTOR FUNDED and PRIVATE SECTOR RUN corporations. Is Libertarian showing his or her true colors? Does he or she actually think that GOVERNMENT FINANCED and GOVERNMENT RUN entities are preferable to PRIVATE SECTOR FINANCED and PRIVATE SECTOR RUN entities?
You must have been dropped on your head a lot as a child.
If you truly believe that GE wasn't given trainloads of corporate welfare, you are totally unaware of reality.
GE took the welfare and then high tailed it out of Dodge to satisfy the corporate owners need for more profit taking by people who profit off of the labors of others.
GE left the city? Then what company is operating - using the name GE - in all of those buildings down there?
It doesn't employ as many people as once did. But it most certainly did NOT leave the city. Furthermore, it is actually investing money in revitalizing some of its buildings down there.
Quite an amusing opinion.
When over 90% of a business leaves a city, it is gone.
The only reason the main plant is still open is because it is cheaper to pay a few thousand people to work there than to spend 2 billion dollars on a superfund sized toxic waste cleanup that they would have to perform.
Decades and decades of corporate welfare and they abandon the city who gave them their start.
It's no different than everything Metroplex does today.
No requirements to stay in the city, or to hire from within the city, in exchange for the massive corporate handouts that they get.
It's a one sided pillaging of the taxpayers.
Performed by the local government and their accomplices.
You said: "GE and ALCO committed suicide by inventing and building the infrastructure that would lead to the demise of the biggest manufacturing plants in the world 100 years ago."
In other words, their inventions were a bad thing. If they hadn't invented those things - according to your argument - than we would still have manufacturing jobs in the U.S. But how? If we didn't invent the new technologies than we would have nothing to manufacture. If ALCO and GE didn't invent the things that they did than Schenectady's manufacturing base would still be making corn brooms and whatever else was being manufactured here in the 1830's and 1840's.
You just invent horseshiit and call it a conclusion.
The GE and ALCO manufaturing plants were killed off by mass transit, which they created.
The GE corporation however used the lower costs to abandon the city that gave them handouts and gave them their start at becoming billionaires.
Corporate welfare will never work.
Corporations only care about corporate profits.
They will abandon you just as GE manufacturing has.
You call it investment.
A nearly bankrupt city that invests tens of millions yearly on corporate welfare., and will never see a return on the investments.
The city continues to spend ten times on corporate welfare than what they gain from the new businesses.
If there were a plan in place to someday stop spending more to attract businesses, than the increased economic gain, then someday there would be a return on the investment.
Right now we have perpetual outspending on corporate welfare than economic gain.
And plans are to keep funneling millions from the taxpayers money to the corporations and continue to call it economic growth.
It is just another way to transfer more wealth to the rich.
You must have been dropped on your head a lot as a child.
If you truly believe that GE wasn't given trainloads of corporate welfare, you are totally unaware of reality.
GE took the welfare and then high tailed it out of Dodge to satisfy the corporate owners need for more profit taking by people who profit off of the labors of others.
No - but what is your excuse for being so confused?
my quote: "GE and ALCO are both PRIVATE SECTOR CORPORATIONS which were financed by PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENT through the 19th Century and most (if not all) of the 20th century ." GE did NOT get "corporate welfare" during the 19th century ... the Erie Canal was built with $7 million (100% of the cost of construction) of government money and run by the government during the same period. GE did NOT get "corporate welfare" in the early 20th century .. while the Erie Canal was completely rebuilt with $90 million (100% of the construction cost) of government running during the same time period. --- and then it was YOU who bemoaned that GE committed suicide by inventing new infrastruture and caused the GOVERNMENT FINANCED and GOVERNMENT RUN canal to "collapse." THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS CRITICIZING A PRIVATELY FINANCED AND PRIVATELY RUN COMPANY FOR CAUSING A GOVERNMENT FINANCED AND GOVERNMENT RUN CANAL TO "COLLAPSE."
Oh -- and GE is still in Schenectady .. still investing in its plant here.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
When over 90% of a business leaves a city, it is gone.
The only reason the main plant is still open is because it is cheaper to pay a few thousand people to work there than to spend 2 billion dollars on a superfund sized toxic waste cleanup that they would have to perform.
Decades and decades of corporate welfare and they abandon the city who gave them their start.
It's no different than everything Metroplex does today.
No requirements to stay in the city, or to hire from within the city, in exchange for the massive corporate handouts that they get.
It's a one sided pillaging of the taxpayers.
Performed by the local government and their accomplices.
GE is still in Schenectady and still investing in Schenectady. GE hasn't left.
Metroplex has done quite well. Schenectady is doing better today than it was a little over 10 years ago -- and MOST residents and MANY visitors to Schenectady agree with me that the leadership in City Hall and the County government and Metroplex has a HUGE role in turning things around and bringing the improvements that we see in the city.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
You just invent horseshiit and call it a conclusion.
The GE and ALCO manufaturing plants were killed off by mass transit, which they created.
The GE corporation however used the lower costs to abandon the city that gave them handouts and gave them their start at becoming billionaires.
Corporate welfare will never work.
Corporations only care about corporate profits.
They will abandon you just as GE manufacturing has.
You call it investment.
A nearly bankrupt city that invests tens of millions yearly on corporate welfare., and will never see a return on the investments.
The city continues to spend ten times on corporate welfare than what they gain from the new businesses.
If there were a plan in place to someday stop spending more to attract businesses, than the increased economic gain, then someday there would be a return on the investment.
Right now we have perpetual outspending on corporate welfare than economic gain.
And plans are to keep funneling millions from the taxpayers money to the corporations and continue to call it economic growth.
It is just another way to transfer more wealth to the rich.
YOU wrote the words -- YOU think it is bad that a GOVERNMENT financed and run canal "collapsed" because of a GE's and ALCO's inventions. YOU said it. Apparently, YOU prefer GOVERNMENT spending over PRIVATE investment. You still haven't explained how ALCO and GE would have drawn 450,000 people to Schenectady if it didn't invent anything to manufacture?
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
GE is still in Schenectady and still investing in Schenectady. GE hasn't left.
Metroplex has done quite well. Schenectady is doing better today than it was a little over 10 years ago -- and MOST residents and MANY visitors to Schenectady agree with me that the leadership in City Hall and the County government and Metroplex has a HUGE role in turning things around and bringing the improvements that we see in the city.
Metroplex has done well? For whom, DV? Can you answer who Metroplex has done well for? -- Has it done well for the city's tax base? -- Has it done well for the homeowners who lost their homes because they couldn't afford to pay the increased taxes resulting from the paying the taxes of the downtown millionaires? -- Has it done well for the home values, home sales, and home sale prices? -- Has it done anything to lower taxes? -- Has it done anything to increase essential services to the taxpayers?
Well? Naturally DV will NOT address the realities, the facts, the truths, all which have been provided with evidence. The realities of the massive falling tax base, the increasing number of people losing their homes, the higher taxes, the people losing money on their homes, and the reduction of essential services to the taxpayers has caused DV to be too embarrassed to respond directly to those facts.
Improvments?
What improvements? --Falling tax base --Reduction of city services --Falling home values --Falling home sales --Falling home sale prices --Increased crime --Increased taxes --Increased blight --Record high numbers of vacancies in residential units --Record high numbers of people putting their houses up for sale to leave the city --Houses won't sell or they take a year or more to sell?
The realities, supported by evidence, have DV speechless, he will NEVER address these issues, just either yawn or spew nonsense babble and lies. He'll say the city is improving, but outside of the downtown millionaires getting richer, he will NOT address the issues that affect the people that live in the city
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
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