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Iraq like Vietnam?
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Libertarian4life
June 19, 2014, 9:10pm Report to Moderator

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America should look to 30 plus years of military intervention in the Islamic world to figure out what to do next in Iraq.

"Ask ourselves the very simple questions:

Is the region becoming more stable?

Is it becoming more democratic?

Are we alleviating, reducing the prevalence of anti-Americanism?"

Adding more death and violence will only increase that which we want to subside.
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senders
June 20, 2014, 4:17am Report to Moderator
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Daddy Bush's war got an entire generation addicted to the 'hollywood war' that was show ALL OVER CABLE.....

people just accept war and killing as much as they accept credit cards........

it's what we do.....war-embassies-trade agreements-sanctions------etc etc etc.......

links in chains....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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senders
June 20, 2014, 4:20am Report to Moderator
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OIL = AMERICAN DOLLAR VALUE

THAT'S WHY THERE IS WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST....

do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????

WAKE UP....

I'm glad you chose to be a soldier and followed your directive, muddled as it is, but let's remove the soldier from the
equation and see who/what is left.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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bumblethru
June 20, 2014, 6:31am Report to Moderator
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[quote=10]

do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????

quote]

YES!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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CICERO
June 20, 2014, 6:57am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from bumblethru
Quoted from senders


do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????



YES!


Does god care about the pre 1967 Israel border or post 1967 border?


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BuckStrider
June 20, 2014, 7:22am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO



Does god care about the pre 1967 Israel border or post 1967 border?









"Approval ratings go up and down for various reasons... An example is the high post 911 support for
GWB even though he could be said to be responsible for the event." --- Box A Rox '9/11 Truther'

Melania is a bimbo... she is there to look at, not to listen to. --- Box A Rox and his 'War on Women'

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Box A Rox
June 20, 2014, 8:40am Report to Moderator

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Do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????
Nope.
Or the USA either!



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
June 20, 2014, 8:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox
Do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????
Nope.
Or the USA either!



Agreed


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bumblethru
June 20, 2014, 10:22am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CICERO


YES!


Does god care about the pre 1967 Israel border or post 1967 border?[/quote]

of course HE cares!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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BuckStrider
June 20, 2014, 10:48am Report to Moderator

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Maybe this will get you guys to come back to the present.


http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/06/19/what-kind-of-iraq-did-obama-inherit/

Quoted Text
What Kind of Iraq Did Obama Inherit?

A very intense debate has broken out about who, from the American side of things, is responsible for the unfolding disaster in Iraq: President Obama or his immediate predecessor. That argument is less important than salvaging the current situation, which is ominous, but it’s not unimportant. The historical record matters.

A fair-minded reading of the facts, I think, shows that when Mr. Obama was sworn in, the Iraq war had more or less been won. Things were fragile to be sure. But the errors that were made during the occupation of Iraq following the fall of Saddam, which were extremely costly, were corrected in 2007. That was when President Bush made what is in my estimation his most impressive decision. In the face of enormous political opposition, with the nation weary of the war, Mr. Bush implemented a new counterinsurgency strategy, dubbed the “surge” and led by the estimable General David Petraeus. It resulted in startling gains.

By the time the surge ended in 2008, violence in Iraq had dropped to the lowest level since the first year of the war. Sectarian killings had dropped by 95 percent. By 2009, U.S. combat deaths were extremely rare. (In December of that year there were no American combat deaths in Iraq.) Iraq was on the mend. Even Barack Obama, who opposed the surge every step of the way, conceded in September 2008 that it had succeeded in reducing violence “beyond our wildest dreams.”

As importantly, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, himself Shia, was leading efforts against Shia extremists (including routing Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army in April 200. Political progress was being made, with Sunnis willing to join the national government. In addition, al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) had been dealt a devastating defeat, in good part because of the “Anbar Awakening.” This was significant because Iraq is where al-Qaeda decided to make its stand; its defeat there was therefore quite damaging to it.

If you want to understand how good things were in Iraq post-surge, consider what Vice President Joe Biden told Larry King on February 11, 2010:

I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s going to be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.

So by the admission of the top figures in the Obama administration, they were quite pleased and very optimistic about the situation in Iraq. And no wonder: Iraq was a functioning (if fragile) democracy and an American ally (if a difficult one) in the Middle East. At least it was until President Obama failed in 2011 to get a new Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) agreement, which set into motion a series of events that have led to where we are.

Defenders of Mr. Obama are now insisting that the president is fault-free when it comes to the SOFA failure. But this is an effort at revisionism. On the matter of the SOFA, this story by the New Yorker’s Dexter Filkins makes it clear that (a) the Maliki government (which is certainly problematic) wanted to maintain a U.S. presence in Iraq; (b) it would have made a significant difference in keeping Iraq pacified; and (c) the Obama administration was not serious about re-negotiating a SOFA agreement. In the words of Mr. Filkins:

President Obama, too, was ambivalent about retaining even a small force in Iraq. For several months, American officials told me, they were unable to answer basic questions in meetings with Iraqis—like how many troops they wanted to leave behind—because the Administration had not decided. “We got no guidance from the White House,” [James Jeffrey, the Amerian Ambassador to Iraq at the time] told me. “We didn’t know where the President was. Maliki kept saying, ‘I don’t know what I have to sell.’ ” At one meeting, Maliki said that he was willing to sign an executive agreement granting the soldiers permission to stay, if he didn’t have to persuade the parliament to accept immunity. The Obama Administration quickly rejected the idea. “The American attitude was: Let’s get out of here as quickly as possible,” Sami al-Askari, the Iraqi member of parliament, said.

And then there’s this:

Ben Rhodes, the U.S. deputy national-security adviser, told me that Obama believes a full withdrawal was the right decision. “There is a risk of overstating the difference that American troops could make in the internal politics of Iraq,” he said. “Having troops there did not allow us to dictate sectarian alliances. Iraqis are going to respond to their own political imperatives.” But U.S. diplomats and commanders argue that they played a crucial role, acting as interlocutors among the factions—and curtailing Maliki’s sectarian tendencies. [emphasis added]

To sum up, then: post-surge, Iraq was making significant progress on virtually every front. The Obama administration said as much. The president was not engaged or eager to sign a new SOFA. A full withdrawal was the right decision. His own top advisers admitted as much. The president had long argued he wanted all American troops out of Iraq during his presidency, and he got his wish. He met his goal.

The problem is that in getting what he wanted, Mr. Obama may well have opened the gates of hell in the Middle East.







"Approval ratings go up and down for various reasons... An example is the high post 911 support for
GWB even though he could be said to be responsible for the event." --- Box A Rox '9/11 Truther'

Melania is a bimbo... she is there to look at, not to listen to. --- Box A Rox and his 'War on Women'

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CICERO
June 20, 2014, 2:05pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from BuckStrider
Maybe this will get you guys to come back to the present.


Thanks for getting me back into the present.  I almost forgot how much I didn't give a sh*t about Iraq or the ISIS.  Or whether Bush or Obama killed enough of the right Arabs in a country I could care less about.  Because when Saddam suppressed these factions that threatened his dictatorship, he was a tyrant.  When America suppresses these factions with violence, they are peacekeepers.  Saddam would have suppressed the same militants the USG wants to suppress.


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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
June 20, 2014, 4:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from senders
OIL = AMERICAN DOLLAR VALUE

THAT'S WHY THERE IS WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST....

do we honestly think 'god' cares about a piece of dirt on earth called Israel???????

WAKE UP....

I'm glad you chose to be a soldier and followed your directive, muddled as it is, but let's remove the soldier from the
equation and see who/what is left.....


You really are a Fascist bigot and to borrow your own words "a piece of dirt."


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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CICERO
June 20, 2014, 5:20pm Report to Moderator

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You really are a Fascist bigot and to borrow your own words "a piece of dirt."


I didn't see what was fascist or bigoted.  Can you expand on those accusations?


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Box A Rox
June 20, 2014, 5:26pm Report to Moderator

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DICK CHENEY:“MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS
ARE WITH THE IRAQI OIL WELLS



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
June 20, 2014, 5:32pm Report to Moderator

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WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—
Citing the deteriorating situation in the war-torn nation, Senator John McCain (R-Arizona)
on Saturday called for Congress to convene an emergency blame game on Iraq.




Quoted Text
“This is a dire crisis,” McCain said. “It’s time to roll up our sleeves and do some
serious finger-pointing.”

McCain said that he hoped Congress would act swiftly to assign blame to a long list of
culprits he identified, including President Obama, the Joint Chiefs, the media, and everyone
who did not vote for him in the 2008 election.

The Arizona senator stressed that the blame game must be “rigorous and far-reaching,”
but said that it would exempt those in the Senate who voted to invade Iraq in 2003.
“That’s ancient history,” he said.

Concluding his remarks, he offered these words of reassurance to the Iraqi people:
“As long as I have breath, I will use it to find fault with others.”


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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