Quoted from Box A Rox

Let me try it and see how it goes...

"Cicero loves to play with naked old men's balls in the summer time when they are all hot and sweaty!"

You should wash your balls more thoroughly.

Quoted from CICERO

Lol!

Quoted from bumblethru

And cic is correct.........when indoctrinated into the military....you are no longer an individual.....you are government property with a name, rank and serial number.....PERIOD!!!

So with that said....i'd have to believe that when someone spat on a soldier...they were in fact spitting on their government. I don't believe for one minute that it was personal....so to say. But folks didn't think for themselves back then either. Like today the country is lead around like sheep.....nothing new under the sun.

Like I said in another post, it was a reaction to the way they were made to feel by association
with those in uniform, as fellow Americans.

Quoted from Tommy

I lived in NYC at the time, and at no time were there protesters INSIDE GCS, because as an important part of the civil, and military infrastructure, it's just not tolerated period. Ever.
I know at least 5 people close to me, that were in Vietnam, 2 of them being LRPs, (the real deal), and people like you just piss them off.

Do you know how you can tell if someone wasn't in combat?
They talk about it.

People like you piss me off becuase you need people to prove everything to you....and guess what I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE A DAMN THING TO A JERK LIKE YOU! I assume the friends were members of the patrols that my CAP provided support to...ask themn about that. And just to be clear, I don't believe I said there was a demonstration in GCS, I said there were several hippies there.  Lastly, I don't believe you know anyone that seved in Vietnam or that you were in NYC back then either....you made the whole thing up! I think your ful of it. AND HONESTLY, I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING I WROTE...CUZ I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU WROTE EITHER!

Quoted from joebxr

So stupid and typical of you!

Typical non response from you.  A guy who want's to be treated like an individual while wearing a UNIFORM.  Brilliant!  

Quoted from Libertarian4life

Nothing about defending freedom?
NOPE, NEVER SAID IT AND DIDN'T EVER BELIEVE IT...NEITHER DID MY FRIENDS,...WE KNEW IT WAS ALL ABOUT BIG BUSINESS

Not at all as I remembered the end of the war.
HOW DO YOUREMEMBER IT?


You are making claims that are not yours to make. I say freedom of expression and you interpret
it as punch and spit. That is not even close to rational.
NOPE, NOT MAKING CLAIMS...ASKING IF YOUR EXPRESSION WOULD STILL BE TO PUNCH THEM OR SPIT ON THEM.

Quoted from CICERO

Typical non response from you.  A guy who want's to be treated like an individual while wearing a UNIFORM.  Brilliant!  

YOU'VE BECOME TOO PREDICTABLE...

Quoted from joebxr

YOU'VE BECOME TOO PREDICTABLE...

Ditto...

There was a lot of anger in this country at the Vietnam war in the 60's 70's.  Some of that anger was directed
in the wrong direction.  
Hippy's but also some very mainstream Americans, took out their anger on the US servicemen who fought the
war.  THEY BLAMED THE WARRIOR FOR THE WAR!
Most Marines had almost no input on whether the USA should fight in Vietnam.  Other than their vote, they had
no impact on the decisions of where we fight, how we fight or even IF we should fight.  
The only people responsible for US troops in Vietnam were US politicians.  Just as today, if you want US troops
out of Iraq, we had to change the situation at the White House, not at the Pentagon.

Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming the cop for crime.  The cop would much rather not put his life
in danger, but putting his life in danger is often part of his job.  Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming
a doctor for disease.  He doesn't create the disease, but his job is to do his best to cure disease and heal
injuries.

The cop, the doctor and the warrior in general do a very good job at their chosen professions. All three groups
do sometimes make mistakes that can end in a disaster.  They are often called on to operate in less than ideal
conditions, with often only a few seconds to decide what is the right course of action.  Under those conditions
there are bound to be mistakes made.  There are bound to be bad decisions and there are bound to be an
occasional rogue cop, soldier or doctor.  I don't view most cops, soldiers or doctors to be in the same group
as the "rogue".

Those condemning the cop, (quite a few on this board) or the doctor or the soldier look at the situation from
the comfort of their own homes and judge others when often they have no idea what actually took place.  

In my 13 months in a line company in Vietnam, I saw wounded civilians, often there was no way of knowing
if the wounded came from US troops or from the enemy.  I never saw a civilian injured on purpose.  The opposite
was true.  We sometimes put ourselves in danger or took casualties to PREVENT civilian injuries.
I know that doesn't fit the 'baby killer' version of some on this board, but that was my experience.

Some in my company were attached to CAC units where  combined ARVN and Marine troops together
lived inside the village with the civilians.  Their job was to protect these civilians... many had sons
fighting for the VC, many fighting with the ARVN.  
Again, it doesn't fit the 'baby killer' accusations does it?

Those few involved in war crimes should be prosecuted... just as the few here today who commit crimes
should be prosecuted.  I don't blame an entire city of people for the crimes of a few people living in that
city. I don't blame the entire US military for the crimes committed by a few in that group.


Blaming the warrior for the war is just wrong.  If you want the US to disband their military, then write
your congressman.  Those who want the US out of Afghanistan, write your representative in DC. If you
want to blame the warrior... write him/her a letter.  They are powerless to change one thing about the
war.

(I realize this post is a waste of time and will likely change no minds of those who disagree, but it might
help some understand the situation better)

Box, as long as that argument is extended to the Nazi stormtrooper, the Japanese Kamikaze pilot, the Taliban soldier, and the Al Qaeda suicide bomber I will accept your argument as at least consistent and logical.  If you only apply that to U.S. soldiers, than your line of argument is self serving and fallacious.

I do however disagree with the collectivist idea that individuals acting in uniform have no responsibility for their actions because the unit was directed by a politically appointed authority.  Whether it is a dirty cop blindly following a corrupt police chief or a soldier following the orders of a war mongering president.  The soldier has his/her own mind and own conscience to distinguish between right and wrong.  The German soldier had the same conscience decision to make in 1939.  I would assume most followed the immoral political leaders against their personal moral judgement.

I disagree with your assertion that the "warrior" is powerless.  He doesn't have to show up to the fight.  He doesn't have to fire his weapon.  He can go AWOL.  The soldiers choice is between killing the innocent or being jailed for conscientiously objecting and disobeying orders.    

Quoted from Box A Rox

THEY BLAMED THE WARRIOR FOR THE WAR!

Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming the cop for crime.  

Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming a doctor for disease.

Blaming the people that performed actions that reflect badly on all Americans is exactly
as it should be.

Blaming each cop for the war on drugs, the prison industrial complexes and the loss of
constitutional rights is exactly as it should be too. They choose to participate.

Blaming doctors for diseases is stupid, when everyone knows that Monsanto is the villain.

Quoted from joebxr

No I take exception because you did not address the questions asked with answers that are directly related. You didn't read the whole thread, obviously, becuase the point is that just the fact we wore a uniform made us fit the mold of baby killers...we were judged for a uniform and not as individuals. The haters felt they knew us enough to make judgements, regardless of facts or truth.   SO questions again were:
Why does anyone feel they have the right to attack and spit on people because they disagree with what is going on half way around the world?
How is spitting on me or any other soldier going to resolve the anger over the war?
Why did they feel they had the right to do this...what gives them the almighty power of judgment?

when a police officer is wearing his/her uniform(even off duty) they command , as is intended, to represent LAW and what
the public believes is 'right'....unfortunately it works the same for military/postmen/security guards/Dr's in scrubs etc etc..

unfortunately you at the time represented 'the government' and the disagreement between it and the plebs....

kind of like the battle between israel/palestinians.....the plebs are pawns....

as for spitting,,,I find it quite offensive and my reflex would land me in jail....it's one thing I can't stand and when I spit
on someone it's got to be really really really personal.....only ever spit on a person once in my life so far....it was
personal.

Quoted from CICERO

Box, as long as that argument is extended to the Nazi stormtrooper, the Japanese Kamikaze pilot, the Taliban soldier, and the Al Qaeda suicide bomber I will accept your argument as at least consistent and logical.  If you only apply that to U.S. soldiers, than your line of argument is self serving and fallacious.

I do however disagree with the collectivist idea that individuals acting in uniform have no responsibility for their actions because the unit was directed by a politically appointed authority.  Whether it is a dirty cop blindly following a corrupt police chief or a soldier following the orders of a war mongering president.  The soldier has his/her own mind and own conscience to distinguish between right and wrong.  The German soldier had the same conscience decision to make in 1939.  I would assume most followed the immoral political leaders against their personal moral judgement.

I disagree with your assertion that the "warrior" is powerless.  He doesn't have to show up to the fight.  He doesn't have to fire his weapon.  He can go AWOL.  The soldiers choice is between killing the innocent or being jailed for conscientiously objecting and disobeying orders.    

There is only one reason a war can exist, willing warriors.

All the criminally negligent politicians on Earth can't have a war without them.

Quoted from Box A Rox

There was a lot of anger in this country at the Vietnam war in the 60's 70's.  Some of that anger was directed
in the wrong direction.  
Hippy's but also some very mainstream Americans, took out their anger on the US servicemen who fought the
war.  THEY BLAMED THE WARRIOR FOR THE WAR!
Most Marines had almost no input on whether the USA should fight in Vietnam.  Other than their vote, they had
no impact on the decisions of where we fight, how we fight or even IF we should fight.  
The only people responsible for US troops in Vietnam were US politicians.  Just as today, if you want US troops
out of Iraq, we had to change the situation at the White House, not at the Pentagon.

Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming the cop for crime.  The cop would much rather not put his life
in danger, but putting his life in danger is often part of his job.  Blaming the warrior for the war, is like blaming
a doctor for disease.  He doesn't create the disease, but his job is to do his best to cure disease and heal
injuries.

The cop, the doctor and the warrior in general do a very good job at their chosen professions. All three groups
do sometimes make mistakes that can end in a disaster.  They are often called on to operate in less than ideal
conditions, with often only a few seconds to decide what is the right course of action.  Under those conditions
there are bound to be mistakes made.  There are bound to be bad decisions and there are bound to be an
occasional rogue cop, soldier or doctor.  I don't view most cops, soldiers or doctors to be in the same group
as the "rogue".

Those condemning the cop, (quite a few on this board) or the doctor or the soldier look at the situation from
the comfort of their own homes and judge others when often they have no idea what actually took place.  

In my 13 months in a line company in Vietnam, I saw wounded civilians, often there was no way of knowing
if the wounded came from US troops or from the enemy.  I never saw a civilian injured on purpose.  The opposite
was true.  We sometimes put ourselves in danger or took casualties to PREVENT civilian injuries.
I know that doesn't fit the 'baby killer' version of some on this board, but that was my experience.

Some in my company were attached to CAC units where  combined ARVN and Marine troops together
lived inside the village with the civilians.  Their job was to protect these civilians... many had sons
fighting for the VC, many fighting with the ARVN.  
Again, it doesn't fit the 'baby killer' accusations does it?

Those few involved in war crimes should be prosecuted... just as the few here today who commit crimes
should be prosecuted.  I don't blame an entire city of people for the crimes of a few people living in that
city. I don't blame the entire US military for the crimes committed by a few in that group.


Blaming the warrior for the war is just wrong.  If you want the US to disband their military, then write
your congressman.  Those who want the US out of Afghanistan, write your representative in DC. If you
want to blame the warrior... write him/her a letter.  They are powerless to change one thing about the
war.

(I realize this post is a waste of time and will likely change no minds of those who disagree, but it might
help some understand the situation better)

I agree with you except on 1 point....it's a volunteer army....every American should question why? why volunteer?
why is the government right? why is there this war? why would people dislike my uniform? why should I leave my family?
why why why why......

a draft is a very very very bad thing....but volunteering makes it more personal...I'm not saying hate the soldier, I'm
saying how did we get here with such a GIANT volunteer army? why?

"He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death." --

Thomas Paine