So I guess Shadow votes on the side of those Free Loaders who would rather not buy any health insurance, then when they are seriously sick or injured... The REST OF US... THE TAXPAYERS, CAN PAY THEIR HEALTH CARE BILLS.
So much for personal responsibility.
Maybe he thinks they paid enough FICA (Federal Insurance CONTRIBUTION Act (that's the tax that pays for Medicare, BTW)) taxes over a certain period to cover it?
I don't think that's his argument. The argument is, those that choose not to pay for health insurance have to find other means to pay for their treatment. Just like any other service rendered, you have to pay for it. For people that don't have the means - there is already state run medicaid.
This is the federal government controlling the health care of every man women and child in the United States.
Cicero's post: "The argument is, those that choose not to pay for health insurance have to find other means to pay for their treatment."
They already have Cic... the American Tax Payer pays for their health because they'd rather not buy any if they can get ME to pay it for them. Many are not poor... they are just selfish. They want to have their health care cake, and eat it too.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Speaking on CNN’s “State of the Union” Sunday morning, White House Chief of Staff Jack Lew said... “First of all, the law is clear, it’s called a penalty. Second of all, what the Supreme Court ruled is that the law is constitutional. Actually, they didn’t call it a tax. They said it was using the power under the constitution that permits it. It was not labeled”.
The Democrats say it isn't a tax...
Then...
Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to Mitt Romney, admitted Monday that he actually agrees with the Obama administration on something: the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a "penalty" and not a "tax." The Republicans say it's not a tax...
Even Supreme Court Justice Roberts didn't say it was a tax... he just ruled the law CONSTITUTIONAL.
So... The only people still saying that the health care act is a tax... are the Rabid Right.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
They already have Cic... the American Tax Payer pays for their health because they'd rather not buy any if they can get ME to pay it for them. Many are not poor... they are just selfish. They want to have their health care cake, and eat it too.
Well Box, the answer is simpler than FORCING EVERYBODY to purchase or get fined. If it has been determined there are people that have the means to pay for insurance, then bill those people that have the means directly for using the medical service.
Not EVERYBODY that has the means is using the medical services. So don't punish everybody for the fraction of 1%.
There is nothing more "selfish" than the insurance industry using the Democrat Party to FORCE every American to give them money so the insurance "fat cats" can get more and more rich.
Box you should listen to what Roberts said, if it was considered a penalty under the Commerce clause it would have been declared unconstitutional, it has to be a tax because the government does have the power to tax but not penalize for not buying something. The Democrats don't want the word tax mentioned even though they argued that it was a tax in front of the Supreme Court because then they would have to admit that Obama lied about not raising taxes and could end up like GHW Bush in November.
Well Box, the answer is simpler than FORCING EVERYBODY to purchase or get fined. If it has been determined there are people that have the means to pay for insurance, then bill those people that have the means directly for using the medical service. Not EVERYBODY that has the means is using the medical services. So don't punish everybody for the fraction of 1%. There is nothing more "selfish" than the insurance industry using the Democrat Party to FORCE every American to give them money so the insurance "fat cats" can get more and more rich.
There is only about 1% of deadbeats who can buy insurance but opt to take the cash and let the rest of us pay their way. The other 99% of Americans, won't be involved in the penalty/tax.
For the 50 million uninsured, Obama Care will allow them to buy insurance at a reasonable price. Everyone will benefit by the end of "pre existing conditions" in their policy. And by being able to carry your kids on your insurance till they reach age 26... and by ending the lifetime limit on your health insurance... and many more.
Cic and Shadow can pay for the Dead Beats who want the rest of us to pay their bills... I'll opt for Obama care that will keep them out of the taxpayers wallets.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Box you should listen to what Roberts said, if it was considered a penalty under the Commerce clause it would have been declared unconstitutional, it has to be a tax because the government does have the power to tax but not penalize for not buying something. The Democrats don't want the word tax mentioned even though they argued that it was a tax in front of the Supreme Court because then they would have to admit that Obama lied about not raising taxes and could end up like GHW Bush in November.
Nope Shadow... you've got it wrong again.
Both the Republicans and the Democrats agree on this one... The Democrats have said all along that the penalty is NOT a tax... and as I posted above... The Republicans agree.
Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to REPUBLICAN Mitt Romney, admitted Monday that he actually agrees with the Obama administration on something: the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a "penalty" and not a "tax."
And did you know that originally "THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE" was a Republican idea and was proposed to Obama by the Republicans in the initial discussions of Health Care Reform.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Even Supreme Court Justice Roberts didn't say it was a tax... he just ruled the law CONSTITUTIONAL.
So... The only people still saying that the health care act is a tax... are the Rabid Right.
Quoted Text
Roberts summed up the split-the-difference decision: “The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance,” he wrote. “The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance.”
From the actual ruling:
Quoted Text
3. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS concluded in Part III–B that the individ- ual mandate must be construed as imposing a tax on those who do not have health insurance
...
The most straightforward reading of the individual mandate is that it commands individuals to purchase insurance. But, for the reasons explained, the Commerce Clause does not give Congress that power. It is therefore necessary to turn to the Government’s alternative ar- gument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power to “lay and collect Taxes.”
Roberts and the "majority" (still questionable) are "rabid right" ??
From the actual ruling:Roberts and the "majority" (still questionable) are "rabid right" ??
Roberts in his confirmation hearings had the opposite beliefs... when he was sucking up to the US Senate to become a Supreme Court Justice.
The Ruling was never on weather it imposed a penalty or a tax... the ruling was about the Constitutionality of the bill, and Roberts never actually said that it was a TAX... only that congress could legally impose a tax for HCR.
The Majority voted the bill to be constitutional... not weather or not it was a tax.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Don't confuse him with facts MT, he's just spouting what the DNC is telling him to say.
Actually, I'm quoting what the Democrats and the Republicans had to say on the issue... Posted for the third time:
Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to REPUBLICAN Mitt Romney, admitted Monday that he actually agrees with the Obama administration on something: the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a "penalty" and not a "tax."
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Roberts in his confirmation hearings had the opposite beliefs... when he was sucking up to the US Senate to become a Supreme Court Justice.
The Ruling was never on weather it imposed a penalty or a tax... the ruling was about the Constitutionality of the bill, and Roberts never actually said that it was a TAX... only that congress could legally impose a tax for HCR.
The Majority voted the bill to be constitutional... not weather or not it was a tax.
What part of "mandate must be construed as imposing a tax" don't you get?
A tax in America prior to last week was a payment by the citizen or legal entity to an agency of civil government. Not so in the new, improved American fascism, as articulated by Chief Justice Roberts. In fascism, a compulsory payment to a private, profit-seeking entity is considered a tax. You can pay it to an insurance company, or you can pay a fine to the federal government. Take your pick. They are both taxes.
Economically, nothing has changed. It's the same old system. What makes this new variant new is that it is judicially protected under the taxation clause rather than the commerce clause.
What part of "mandate must be construed as imposing a tax" don't you get?
I really think that you should take this up with the Republicans on the board, not I, since I opposed the individual mandate... THE REPUBLICANS proposed at several times in the health care debate that an INDIVIDUAL MANDATE was the only fair way to proceed. I was always in favor of a UNIVERSAL MANDATE, where Health Care is a Right for every US Citizen and tax or penalty or fee, doesn't matter what you call it . I'd ask the Republicans who proposed this measure to the Obama administration why THEY would propose a TAX that you all seem to think is illegal.
Could it be that these Conservative Republicans... The Heritage Foundation's own... would propose a tax hike, then push it off as if it were a Democrat idea??? (the answer is of course, YES)
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
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