Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
In the Wake of Santorum, Catholics Must Not Retrea
Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community    United States Government  ›  In the Wake of Santorum, Catholics Must Not Retrea Moderators: Admin
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 101 Guests

In the Wake of Santorum, Catholics Must Not Retrea  This thread currently has 1,173 views. |
2 Pages 1 2 » Recommend Thread
DemocraticVoiceOfReason
April 15, 2012, 5:37am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
12,321
Reputation
20.83%
Reputation Score
+10 / -38
Time Online
151 days 7 hours 5 minutes
In the Wake of Santorum, Catholics Must Not Retreat From Political Participation[face=Arial][/face]
By Keith A Fournier
4/14/2012
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

We do not check our faith at the door of our participation in the stuff of real life, whether that be art, entertainment, culture, economics, or even politics.

After Rick Santorum suspended his Presidential campaign I received numerous E-Mails.This comment worried me and prompted this article, "Politics saves no one.  My focus will return to the religious/spiritual." We are called to integrated Christian lives of moral coherence.


WASHINGTON, DC (Catholic Online) - In the wake of Rick Santorum's decision to suspend his Presidential campaign I have received numerous E-Mails and calls expressing deep disappointment. I understand it quite well - in fact I share the sentiment.

Those who have read the many articles I wrote on the Santorum candidacy know of my friendship with - and admiration for - the former Senator and his family. I finally felt we had a morally coherent candidate running for the US presidency at a crucial time in our national history.

However, the following comment in an E mail from a man who, partly due to my articles, involved himself deeply in the Santorum campaign worried me and prompted this article. He ended with these words, "Politics saves no one.  My focus will return to the religious/spiritual."

I responded, "Yes, you are right, politics saves no-one. However, it is a part of culture and we belong in that turf in our participation in the continuing mission of the Lord entrusted to His Body, the Church, of which we are members.

"If there was ever a need for Catholics in the public square, this is it. Please remember that faith is meant to inform culture and our very ability to share this faith in the public square requires us to exercise our faithful citizenship."

On Thursday, April 12, 2012, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops released an outstanding letter defending the First Freedom, Religious Freedom, entitled "Our First, Most Cherished Liberty".

Under the courageous leadership of Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop Designate William Lori and all the US Bishops, we have been mobilized like never before. Catholics in the United States are rising up in a Tide of Resistance to the unjust actions of the Obama Administration. We are protecting a fundamental human right, religious freedom.

We know that the most fundamental right, the Right to Life, has been denied to over fifty million of our youngest neighbors as a result of the scourge of legal abortion in the United States.

Any Nation which allows the intentional killing of its young in the first home of the womb and calls that intrinsically evil action a "right" has lost its soul and jeopardizes its future.

The Natural Law, written on every human heart and available through the exercise of reason, confirms that it is wrong to take innocent human life. Medical science confirms what our conscience has confirmed, the child in the womb is one of us, our neighbor, and it is always wrong to kill our neighbor.

We witness a growing loss of recognition of the dignity of life in a dehumanized culture where persons are treated as property throughout the continuum of life - from the earliest embryonic stage into the senior years.

We witness a growing threat to marriage and the family and society founded upon it. The truth about marriage is also confirmed in the Natural Law. The effort to force us to call what can never be a marriage to be a marriage under threat of punitive sanctions is another example of the rise of tyranny.

We are faced with global threats to peace, an escalation of violence around the world and many other pressing social and global concerns. We cannot - we must not - withdraw into some form of religious ghetto.

We are living under what Pope Benedict XVI called a "Dictatorship of Relativism". There  is a wholesale effort to deny the existence of anything objectively true which can be known by all and form the basis of our common life. This leads to the loss of true freedom. In fact, as a result, we are teetering on the brink of anarchy.

The effort to paint our moral positions as "religious" and force us to stay behind our Church doors is virulently anti-Christian and unconstitutional. The Catholic Christian by virtue of Baptism is called to a life of Participation. The faith is not something we "put on and off" like clothing depending upon which sphere of life we are in. It is to inform all of our lives - to change the way we view reality and the way we live it!

We do not check our faith at the door of our participation in the "stuff" of real life, whether that be art, entertainment, culture, economics, or even politics.Catholics could determine the outcome of the 2012 Presidential election in the United States. That is if we act in a manner which, in the words of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is "morally coherent."

That poignant phrase, "morally coherent", was used in an instruction released in 2002 entitled a "Doctrinal note on some questions regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political life".

This Letter was directed to "the Bishops of the Catholic Church and, in a particular way, to Catholic politicians and all lay members of the faithful called to participate in the political life of democratic societies." The phrase is also found in the "Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church" sections which pertain to the political participation of Catholics. (See, e.g. #565-574):

"The social doctrine of the Church is not an intrusion into the government of individual countries. It is a question of the lay Catholic's duty to be morally coherent, found within one's conscience, which is one and indivisible."

"There cannot be two parallel lives in their existence: on the one hand, the so-called 'spiritual life', with its values and demands; and on the other, the so-called 'secular' life, that is, life in a family, at work, in social responsibilities, in the responsibilities of public life and in culture. The branch, engrafted to the vine which is Christ, bears its fruit in every sphere of existence and activity."

"In fact, every area of the lay faithful's lives, as different as they are, enters into the plan of God, who desires that these very areas be the 'places in time' where the love of Christ is revealed and realized for both the glory of the Father and service of others".

"Living and acting in conformity with one's own conscience on questions of politics is not slavish acceptance of positions alien to politics or some kind of 'confessionalism', but rather the way in which Christians offer their concrete contribution so that, through political life, society will become more just and more consistent with the dignity of the human person."

The Catholic Church as an institution does not endorse specific political candidates. However, the Church does call her members to inform their conscience and then exercise their faithful citizenship in a morally coherent manner.

We must not remain silent as the Nation we love continues down the wrong path. American culture stumbles, drunken on the false notion of freedom as giving some people a "right" to kill the innocent, divorced from norms to guide the exercise of human choice and govern our behavior. In addition, the culture denigrates the beauty of marital love as it turns people into objects of use in the name of "sexual freedom".

I do not consider myself first a "conservative". I am certainly not a "liberal" or "progressive", within the current meaning of those terms. I am a Catholic. I affirm the classical Christian assertion that there is a law written on every human heart which can be known by the exercise of reason and should inform our positive or civil law. It is the foundation upon which a truly free society must be built.

We Catholics also affirm another existential and objective truth; human persons are by nature social. We cannot be truly happy, pursue happiness, or even be fully free without one another. We were made for relationships. This has implications in every area of life, including economics and the market.

We have an obligation in solidarity to those in need. It is elevated in the face of growing threats to their wellbeing. We are also aware of the struggles faced by our fellow citizens as the economic life of our nation teeters in a growing financial crisis and we must act as a result.

We insist that economics is not in the first instance about capital, it is about human persons. A truly free economic system recognizes that freedom is a good of the person. Only human persons can be free because we are capable of making free choices.

That is the reason recent social teachings of the Church have extolled the potential of the market economy and the free market system; it has the better chance to promote human flourishing and open the door to human advancement. That is if we recognize that the market was made for man and now man for the market.

We really are our brother and sisters keeper. We have an obligation to one another. That is what is meant by solidarity. How that truth works its way into public and economic policy leaves room for the application of prudential judgment. It must also respect the principle of subsidiarity.

We also insist upon the primacy of moral values at the foundation of our life together in human society. The notion of separating "social" or "moral" issues from "economic" issues reveals a failure to recognize the moral basis of any truly free society.

Catholics are not anti-government. We arrive at smaller government, bottom up government, not because government is bad, but because government begins with the family and moves out from there.Good government should support the family as the first government and defer to it. Government  should also take place first at the level closest to the need and any government beyond that should provide assistance. This is how the principle of subsidiarity should operate.  

All government should respect human dignity, foster ingenuity, provide incentive, promote and reward creativity and innovation, expand participation, provide for private ownership, promote mediating institutions and foster human flourishing and advancement. In other words, serve the common good.

Many Catholics were deluded by the candidate Barack Obama in his last campaign. In his rhetoric he used language which sounded as though he agrees with Catholics on some of these issues - in particular, our obligations in solidarity with the poor. However, his administration has acted in a manner which proves the opposite.

The most egregious example is his failure to hear the cry of the children in the womb, the poorest of the poor. However, there are many more, including his denial of religious freedom and his failure to defend marriage and the family and society founded upon it.

This Presidents actions in office have demonstrated that this administration will continue to promote a rapidly expanding Secularist State which fails to respect fundamental human rights including the Right to life and the Right to Religious Freedom. In the Wake of Santorum: Catholics Must Not Retreat From Political Participation.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Logged
Private Message
alias
April 15, 2012, 5:57am Report to Moderator
Guest User
fat freakin' troll alert!!!!
Logged
E-mail Reply: 1 - 18
senders
April 15, 2012, 6:22am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 2 - 18
DemocraticVoiceOfReason
April 15, 2012, 10:45am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
12,321
Reputation
20.83%
Reputation Score
+10 / -38
Time Online
151 days 7 hours 5 minutes
Ultimately, we must fight to defend the TRUE SPIRIT AND INTENTION of the First Amendment, which reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Our Founding Fathers NEVER mentioned the phrase "separation of Church and State" in the Constitution; and NEVER intended for people of faith -- of any faith -- to be muzzled in the public arena.  It is precisely because of the deep faith in a higher being that our Founding Fathers, who were in numbers overwhelmingly Christian (even though they may each have had "different takes" on their image of/belief in God, image of/belief in Jesus Christ and the specific practice(s) of their respective religious affiliations), brought their own deeply held faith and religious beliefs into their public debate of political/secular issues.

While we can argue until the cows come home whether they intended America to be a "Christian Nation" and I certainly do not believe they were proposing a theocracy, it is overwhelmingly evident that th Founding Fathers NEVER intended for our nation to be a God-less, soul-less and faith-less nation.  The opposite is in fact the truth.

Our politicians had better heed the warning.  An overwhelming majority of Americans will no longer tolerate further erosions of our Freedom of Religion and further assaults on our faith and values.  And that message needs to be emphasized to those who claim to be Roman Catholic but who insist on claiming to believe one thing INSIDE church on Sunday and supporting/advocating beliefs which are contrary and/or detrimental to Church teaching OUTSIDE church the other 6 days of the week.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Logged
Private Message Reply: 3 - 18
alias
April 15, 2012, 10:52am Report to Moderator
Guest User
fat freakin' troll alert!!!!     #2
Logged
E-mail Reply: 4 - 18
bumblethru
April 15, 2012, 10:53am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
Ultimately, we must fight to defend the TRUE SPIRIT AND INTENTION of the First Amendment, which reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Our Founding Fathers NEVER mentioned the phrase "separation of Church and State" in the Constitution; and NEVER intended for people of faith -- of any faith -- to be muzzled in the public arena.  It is precisely because of the deep faith in a higher being that our Founding Fathers, who were in numbers overwhelmingly Christian (even though they may each have had "different takes" on their image of/belief in God, image of/belief in Jesus Christ and the specific practice(s) of their respective religious affiliations), brought their own deeply held faith and religious beliefs into their public debate of political/secular issues.

While we can argue until the cows come home whether they intended America to be a "Christian Nation" and I certainly do not believe they were proposing a theocracy, it is overwhelmingly evident that th Founding Fathers NEVER intended for our nation to be a God-less, soul-less and faith-less nation.  The opposite is in fact the truth.

Our politicians had better heed the warning.  An overwhelming majority of Americans will no longer tolerate further erosions of our Freedom of Religion and further assaults on our faith and values.  And that message needs to be emphasized to those who claim to be Roman Catholic but who insist on claiming to believe one thing INSIDE church on Sunday and supporting/advocating beliefs which are contrary and/or detrimental to Church teaching OUTSIDE church the other 6 days of the week.


then it appears that you will be voting for ron paul who is the ONLY candidate that will uphold the constitution.....yes?


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 5 - 18
DemocraticVoiceOfReason
April 15, 2012, 2:04pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
12,321
Reputation
20.83%
Reputation Score
+10 / -38
Time Online
151 days 7 hours 5 minutes
Quoted from bumblethru


then it appears that you will be voting for ron paul who is the ONLY candidate that will uphold the constitution.....yes?


Ron Paul will not get my vote -- because of other items in his platform and because I don't think he would make a good and effective president.   As stated previously, there is no one remaining as an announced candidate for president - in either party - that I intend to endorse or vote for.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Logged
Private Message Reply: 6 - 18
Henry
April 15, 2012, 2:06pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
6,058
Reputation
85.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -3
Time Online
2114 days 9 hours 31 minutes

Our politicians had better heed the warning.  An overwhelming majority of Americans will no longer tolerate further erosions of our Freedom of Religion and further assaults on our faith and values.


Here I agree, although it was Santorum who said it was the governments role to regulate marriage and to regulate peoples lives if it didn't fit into his values. How can you complain about erosions of liberties while supporting a candidate who wished to deny those same liberties to others.






"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 7 - 18
GrahamBonnet
April 15, 2012, 2:44pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
9,643
Reputation
66.67%
Reputation Score
+16 / -8
Time Online
131 days 7 hours 47 minutes
G.F.Y.

The Catholic Church of America is an organization which promotes and endorses communism and socialism, and makes a substantial sum doing so as they "stroke" of "leaders" such as the radical pro-abortion Paul Tonko and receive millions for such welfare programs as Catholic Charities. Of course they want all democraps in power. They as much say so when you attend Mass from the pulpit. I have seen this with my own eyes. In the words of Father Honan "The Communists and Atheists are now inside the Church." And this was circa 1970.

Sadly, they will now be devoured by those they elevated, thinking that they would never turn their laws on the Church! What a surprise, surprise! For you see, the influence of Church teaching and Christianity has waned among the voters and now the democraps have taken  more powerful lovers to bed- the Secularists and the Feminists. And they will NOT share the bed with the hated Catholic Church! So the Democraps MUST throw the Church out into the cold and rainy night with nothing! At the behest of the Feminists that demand retribution, they must not only make the Church submit, and face humiliation, they must go further and help the Feminists DESTROY the Church in public, People like Ron Severe simply help unsheath the dagger as the secular left got stronger and stronger from the grassroots. They claimed to be devout Catholic Leftists, never understanding that the Left demands the Church be destroyed and eventually outlawed as a Hate Organization.

As a cradle Catholic, I see everywhere; the seeds of their own destruction that they sowed as they sneakily laid down with their fellow travelers in the Democrap party, only to reap a knife so elegantly shoved between their shoulder blades by those same bed mates they so eagerly chose over the past 50 years!

So as the Line is Drawn in the Sand, will we see Ron Severe and his ilk stand with the Church and face down his masters in the Democrap party? No, we will not. Because the votes have been counted and the Secularists and Feminists have more numbers now. If history has taught us one things, ALL leftists will abandon ALL of their values for a shear drop of more political power. As the communists re-branded to Progressives, you will see Catholics in the Left re-brand themselves similarly.

The Church is doomed in America. We will see it relegated to the same level as the KKK within our lifetimes by the priests and witches of the Left. This you can be sure of. I predict with 100% certainty that it will become an outlaw organization in the eyes of the Government if it does not break with Rome entirely and change its values and teachings to be in accordance with the Leftists who dictate politically correct Dogma. Once the Church is broken this way, any of the smaller churches will face the same, and this will come from within.

Always be careful of who you sleep with.


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
Logged
Private Message Reply: 8 - 18
DemocraticVoiceOfReason
April 15, 2012, 5:45pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
12,321
Reputation
20.83%
Reputation Score
+10 / -38
Time Online
151 days 7 hours 5 minutes
Quoted from Henry


Here I agree, although it was Santorum who said it was the governments role to regulate marriage and to regulate peoples lives if it didn't fit into his values. How can you complain about erosions of liberties while supporting a candidate who wished to deny those same liberties to others.






Civil Marriage isn't a Constitutionally protected right -- it is a licensed activity just like driving a car or practicing one of several professions (doctors, lawyers, etc)  -- and has been regulated by civil governments for thousands of years.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Logged
Private Message Reply: 9 - 18
DemocraticVoiceOfReason
April 15, 2012, 5:48pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
12,321
Reputation
20.83%
Reputation Score
+10 / -38
Time Online
151 days 7 hours 5 minutes
As for the comment of the other poster, I just consider the source -- based on his/her lie-filled posts one can only reach the conclusion that he/she is a despicable ignorant bigot.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Logged
Private Message Reply: 10 - 18
senders
April 15, 2012, 5:55pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
As for the comment of the other poster, I just consider the source -- based on his/her lie-filled posts one can only reach the conclusion that he/she is a despicable ignorant bigot.


you're still locked in your basement.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 11 - 18
GrahamBonnet
April 15, 2012, 8:05pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
9,643
Reputation
66.67%
Reputation Score
+16 / -8
Time Online
131 days 7 hours 47 minutes
As for the comment of the other poster, I just consider the source -- based on his/her lie-filled posts one can only reach the conclusion that he/she is a despicable ignorant bigot.


In your next life, be careful who you lay down with. Too bad the Church has laid down with communists and atheists. And YOU supported that. As I said- in your next life...


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
Logged
Private Message Reply: 12 - 18
Henry
April 16, 2012, 4:13am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
6,058
Reputation
85.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -3
Time Online
2114 days 9 hours 31 minutes


Civil Marriage isn't a Constitutionally protected right -- it is a licensed activity just like driving a car or practicing one of several professions (doctors, lawyers, etc)  -- and has been regulated by civil governments for thousands of years.


So you want the government to be allowed to discriminate just like it did with the Jim Crow laws Marriage is not the only area Santorum wants the government to be involved in our personal lives either, he also wants to regulate what we watch and buy, what we consume, what we can do with a other consenting adult etc, and he wishes to regulate this by the force of the government, that kinda goes against what was mentioned in your post about Catholics wanting small government wouldn't you say. Like many social conservatives Santorum doesn't mind big government as long as it is their version of big government, however once someone else's values or beliefs start getting pushed onto them then their attitude changes really fast.

If you want to make a difference then lead by example like Jesus did, live your life by what values you were taught, doing that will open up more people to how you see the world and maybe then they might try to follow your example. However if you try to force your values onto others expect people to resist you and be ready to lose in the end.



"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 13 - 18
MobileTerminal
April 16, 2012, 4:39am Report to Moderator
Guest User

and has been regulated by civil governments for thousands of years.


THOUSANDS of years?  No, I don't think so.  A couple hundred I might agree with, but not thousands.
Logged
E-mail Reply: 14 - 18
2 Pages 1 2 » Recommend Thread
|

Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community    United States Government  ›  In the Wake of Santorum, Catholics Must Not Retrea

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread