Marine says Corps wants him booted for Obama posts Posted: Mar 21, 2012 8:19 PM EDT Updated: Mar 21, 2012 9:09 PM EDT By JULIE WATSON Associated Press
SAN DIEGO (AP) - The Marine Corps on Wednesday notified a sergeant who has been openly critical of President Barack Obama that he is violating Pentagon policy barring troops from political activities and that he faces dismissal.
Camp Pendleton Marine Sgt. Gary Stein started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party to encourage fellow service members to exercise their free speech rights. He declared a few weeks ago that he would not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief. Stein also criticized Defense Secretary Leon Panetta for his comments on Syria.
Stein, a nine-year member of the Corps, said he did nothing wrong and planned to fight the charges. He had applied to extend his service, which was set to expire in a few months.
"I'm completely shocked that this is happening," he said. "I've done nothing wrong. I've only stated what our oath states that I will defend the constitution and that I will not follow unlawful orders. If that's a crime, what is America coming to?"
The Marine Corps said in a statement Wednesday that Stein's commanding officer ordered a preliminary inquiry on March 8 after receiving allegations that Stein posted political statements about Obama on Facebook in violation of the Pentagon's directives.
"After reviewing the findings of the preliminary inquiry, the commander decided to address the allegations through administrative action," the Corps said.....................>>>>..................>>>>.....................http://www.news10.com/story/17.....clienttype=printable
How is this story different from any other service member who pledges NOT to follow orders from his commanding officer???
This poor excuse for a Marine besmirches the Corps and his fellow warriors. My guess... he will not be allowed to reenlist.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Marine who criticized Obama says hearing board ignored law April 10, 2012 | 12:52 pm
The Marine sergeant facing discharge because of critical comments about President Obama says the board that recommended his dismissal ignored the law and instead relied on "personal opinion."
"I believe it was more based on personal opinion on the three members than it was based on the legalities of the case," Sgt. Gary Stein told CNN in an interview Tuesday. "They denied four expert witnesses that were there to talk about the legalities.... They didn't even want to hear or take written testimony from them."
After a lengthy hearing Thursday, the Administrative Separation Board at Camp Pendleton voted 3-0 to recommend that Stein be ousted and given an other-than-honorable discharge. Those decisions are up to Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo, commanding officer of Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego.
Stein, 26, a nine-year veteran including deployment to Iraq, had been recommended for dismissal and an other-than-honorable discharge by his commander for comments posted on four Facebook pages.
In his postings, Stein called Obama a coward and an enemy, vowed not to salute him and called for his defeat in this year's election. One of the websites was an Armed Forces Tea Party page on Facebook that was created by Stein.
Stein's civilian lawyers are seeking to have his discharge blocked in federal court on grounds that his 1st Amendment rights are being violated by the Marine Corps. A hearing is set for Friday in San Diego federal court.
Gary Kreep, a lawyer with the conservative U.S. Justice Foundation, told CNN that if the court in San Diego does not "protect the rights of Sgt. Stein," the case will be appealed to the 9th Circuit.
Stein said that while his words "were somewhat tasteless," he feels he was within the Department of Defense guidelines about service members making political statements. The American Civil Liberties Union has joined Stein's lawsuit seeking to block his discharge...........................>>>>...........................>>>>..................http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/04/marine-sergeant-obama.html
Marine Corps discharges sergeant for Facebook posts critical of Obama Published April 25, 2012 Associated Press
SAN DIEGO – A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday. Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honorable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said. The San Diego-area Marine who has served nine years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He argued that he was exercising his constitutional rights to free speech. "I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press...................>>>>..................>>>>....................Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....obama/#ixzz1t8wKVhK0
Must be one of those free speech zones, by the way when did Samuel L Jackson become a cop
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
How is this story different from any other service member who pledges NOT to follow orders from his commanding officer???
This poor excuse for a Marine besmirches the Corps and his fellow warriors. My guess... he will not be allowed to reenlist.
Yer right box, a good soldier follows the orders of his/her commanding officer; they do NOT defend the Constitution. Patriotism means killing for your commanding officer - NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
I really do feel sorry for them. Many have been brainwashed to the point of taking pictures with the people they killed. In civilized society, that would be considered the behavior of a psychopathic deranged killer. But in the military, if it is done at the command of an officer, that behavior is praised is encouraged. Sick, Sick, Sick.
Yer right box, a good soldier follows the orders of his/her commanding officer; they do NOT defend the Constitution. Patriotism means killing for your commanding officer - NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
I really do feel sorry for them. Many have been brainwashed to the point of taking pictures with the people they killed. In civilized society, that would be considered the behavior of a psychopathic deranged killer. But in the military, if it is done at the command of an officer, that behavior is praised is encouraged. Sick, Sick, Sick.
Really Cicero... You should find out some FACTS on the subject before you post your opinion. Since you have no experience in the area, let me instruct you: First the Oath:
Quoted Text
"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"
Now the law:
Quoted Text
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809[890].ART.90 , makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 , the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
Cic, I hope this helped your understanding of the issue.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Really Cicero... You should find out some FACTS on the subject before you post your opinion. Since you have no experience in the area, let me instruct you: First the Oath:
Now the law: Cic, I hope this helped your understanding of the issue.
Box, how is the UCMJ even valid when they are required to fight in undeclared wars? Wouldn't the violation of the Constitution requiring a declaration of war supersede UCMJ law? Your typical trigger pulling grunt isn't a lawyer; they are order takers that are taught to obey their superiors.
How many Libyans did our fighter and bomber jet pilots kill? When was that war declared?
Box, how is the UCMJ even valid when they are required to fight in undeclared wars? Wouldn't the violation of the Constitution requiring a declaration of war supersede UCMJ law? Your typical trigger pulling grunt isn't a lawyer; they are order takers that are taught to obey their superiors.
How many Libyans did our fighter and bomber jet pilots kill? When was that war declared?
Once again Cicero... You are posting about something you know nothing about. Your quote: "Your typical trigger pulling grunt isn't a lawyer; they are order takers that are taught to obey their superiors" shows your obvious disdain for the military and those who serve our country.
I can't speak for other branches of the military, but the US Marines have classes on just this subject. As a Marine you have an obligation and are responsible to disobey a non lawful order. You posted that you have a Marine in your family... you might want to discuss the issue with him before you continue embarrassing yourself by posting your anti military views.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Once again Cicero... You are posting about something you know nothing about. Your quote: "Your typical trigger pulling grunt isn't a lawyer; they are order takers that are taught to obey their superiors" shows your obvious disdain for the military and those who serve our country.
I can't speak for other branches of the military, but the US Marines have classes on just this subject. As a Marine you have an obligation and are responsible to disobey a non lawful order. You posted that you have a Marine in your family... you might want to discuss the issue with him before you continue embarrassing yourself by posting your anti military views.
No disdain for the military...I just have a hard time grasping how you have been spouting off on this message board that George W. Bush was a war criminal and lied to get us into an illegal war in Iraq. Yet, you defend the "warriors" that killed innocent Iraqi's in this illegal war. So which is it box...Did Bush commit troops to an illegal war, therefore by your standards based on the oath Marines take to uphold the Constitution should have laid down their weapons and refused to fight in this illegal war? Actually, based on OCMJ they are obligated to do so. Did they KNOWINGLY fight in this illegal war?
I'm not anti military, I just question, when do the people hired to pull the triggers have the moral and legal obligation to stop killing in these illegal wars waged by their superiors? Obviously if you speak out against the leader executing these illegal wars, you are thrown out of the military.
No disdain for the military...I just have a hard time grasping how you have been spouting off on this message board that George W. Bush was a war criminal and lied to get us into an illegal war in Iraq. Yet, you defend the "warriors" that killed innocent Iraqi's in this illegal war. So which is it box...Did Bush commit troops to an illegal war, therefore by your standards based on the oath Marines take to uphold the Constitution should have laid down their weapons and refused to fight in this illegal war? Actually, based on OCMJ they are obligated to do so.
I'm not anti military, I just question, when do the people hired to pull the triggers have the moral and legal obligation to stop killing in these illegal wars waged by their superiors? Obviously if you speak out against the leader executing these illegal wars, you are thrown out of the military.
Cicero... Did you actually read my last post? Every time that I think you are learning, you come back with a less informed post" ~ " Obviously if you speak out against the leader executing these illegal wars, you are thrown out of the military." ~ If you know you are following an illegal order, you are obliged to refuse to follow that order, and are obliged to make that illegal order known to your superiors. You have a total lack of knowledge on anything concerning the military, yet you post as if you had some expertise. "REQUEST MAST" Every Marine has the right to bring serious issues to his commanding officer. If his commanding officer is implicated in this issue, he can go over the head of his commanding officer to eventually the Commandant of the Marines and even to the President of the USA, if necessary. Any Marine, no matter what his rank, can request mast.
If you request mast on a legitimate issue, including refusing to obey what you considered to be an illegal order, you won't be discharged or punished.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Cicero... Did you actually read my last post? Every time that I think you are learning, you come back with a less informed post" ~ " Obviously if you speak out against the leader executing these illegal wars, you are thrown out of the military." ~ If you know you are following an illegal order, you are obliged to refuse to follow that order, and are obliged to make that illegal order known to your superiors.
I read them...I'm asking you, if you believe the Iraq war was illegal, why were there so many soldiers willing to execute Iraqis? It was apparent to you and many others that the invasion of Iraq was unjust and illegal, but to the 100K troops that invaded, they followed orders.
You give me examples of the Marine by-laws and how the military keeps all transgressions "in-house". I give you an example using your own words calling the Iraq war illegal.
Apparently when a soldier steps outside of the military rules and chain of command and tries to persuade the American civilians to end these wars, criticizing his commander and cheif, and posting it on Facebook, your service as hired killer is no longer needed.
I read them...I'm asking you, if you believe the Iraq war was illegal, why were there so many soldiers willing to execute Iraqis? It was apparent to you and many others that the invasion of Iraq was unjust and illegal, but to the 100K troops that invaded, they followed orders. You give me examples of the Marine by-laws and how the military keeps all transgressions "in-house". I give you an example using your own words calling the Iraq war illegal. Apparently when a soldier steps outside of the military rules and chain of command and tries to persuade the American civilians to end these wars by posting it on Facebook, your service as hired killer is no longer needed.
OK. I tried to educate you... but you refuse to learn. I give up. ~ "so many soldiers willing to execute Iraqis? " ~ " your service as hired killer is no longer needed".
Continue in your ignorance if you choose, but your every post is an insult to those who protect your right to post such insults. Talk to your dad... maybe he can explain it to you. I no longer care what you think.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Logged
