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bumblethru
November 24, 2011, 6:10pm Report to Moderator
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All I'm asking is on what 'grounds' did they have to pull this car over in the first place and order them out of their car at gun point?  What crime did they actually commit other than refusing to get out of their car.........which isn't a crime and actually is  their legal right under the constitution!! What exactly is 'suspicious' behavior?

I got that info straight from a cop's mouth!!!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
November 24, 2011, 6:18pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 147


Now that you've libeled my name, tell me exactly how I, or the other two conspirators named above are considered "terrorists"

(and be sure to be on the lookout for my attorneys letter, coming soon)


ROFL


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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senders
November 24, 2011, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
DRIVERS LICENSE VS RIGHT TO TRAVEL



Right to Travel
DESPITE ACTIONS OF POLICE AND LOCAL COURTS,
HIGHER COURTS HAVE RULED THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS
HAVE A RIGHT TO TRAVEL WITHOUT STATE PERMITS

By Jack McLamb (from Aid & Abet Newsletter)

For years professionals within the criminal justice system have acted on the belief that traveling by motor vehicle was a privilege that was given to a citizen only after approval by their state government in the form of a permit or license to drive. In other words, the individual must be granted the privilege before his use of the state highways was considered legal. Legislators, police officers, and court officials are becoming aware that there are court decisions that disprove the belief that driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval in the form of a license. Presented here are some of these cases:

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

It could not be stated more directly or conclusively that citizens of the states have a common law right to travel, without approval or restriction (license), and that this right is protected under the U.S Constitution.

CASE #3: "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

CASE #4: "The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right." Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

As hard as it is for those of us in law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. American citizens do indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of others. Government -- in requiring the people to obtain drivers licenses, and accepting vehicle inspections and DUI/DWI roadblocks without question -- is restricting, and therefore violating, the people's common law right to travel.

Is this a new legal interpretation on this subject? Apparently not. This means that the beliefs and opinions our state legislators, the courts, and those in law enforcement have acted upon for years have been in error. Researchers armed with actual facts state that case law is overwhelming in determining that to restrict the movement of the individual in the free exercise of his right to travel is a serious breach of those freedoms secured by the U.S. Constitution and most state constitutions. That means it is unlawful. The revelation that the American citizen has always had the inalienable right to travel raises profound questions for those who are involved in making and enforcing state laws. The first of such questions may very well be this: If the states have been enforcing laws that are unconstitutional on their face, it would seem that there must be some way that a state can legally put restrictions -- such as licensing requirements, mandatory insurance, vehicle registration, vehicle inspections to name just a few -- on a citizen's constitutionally protected rights. Is that so?  

For the answer, let us look, once again, to the U.S. courts for a determination of this very issue. In Hertado v. California, 110 US 516, the U.S Supreme Court states very plainly:

"The state cannot diminish rights of the people."  

And in Bennett v. Boggs, 1 Baldw 60,

"Statutes that violate the plain and obvious principles of common right and common reason are null and void."

Would we not say that these judicial decisions are straight to the point -- that there is no lawful method for government to put restrictions or limitations on rights belonging to the people? Other cases are even more straight forward:

"The assertion of federal rights, when plainly and reasonably made, is not to be defeated under the name of local practice." Davis v. Wechsler, 263 US 22, at 24

"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491.

"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. US, 230 F 486, at 489.

There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional rights." Sherer v. Cullen, 481 F 946

We could go on, quoting court decision after court decision; however, the Constitution itself answers our question - Can a government legally put restrictions on the rights of the American people at anytime, for any reason? The answer is found in Article Six of the U.S. Constitution:

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof;...shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or laws of any State to the Contrary not one word withstanding."

In the same Article, it says just who within our government that is bound by this Supreme Law:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution..."

Here's an interesting question. Is ignorance of these laws an excuse for such acts by officials? If we are to follow the letter of the law, (as we are sworn to do), this places officials who involve themselves in such unlawful acts in an unfavorable legal situation. For it is a felony and federal crime to violate or deprive citizens of their constitutionally protected rights. Our system of law dictates that there are only two ways to legally remove a right belonging to the people. These are:

by lawfully amending the constitution, or
by a person knowingly waiving a particular right.
  
Some of the confusion on our present system has arisen because many millions of people have waived their right to travel unrestricted and volunteered into the jurisdiction of the state. Those who have knowingly given up these rights are now legally regulated by state law and must acquire the proper permits and registrations. There are basically two groups of people in this category:

More- http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/right2travel.shtml

===============================================================

Raymond Karczewski
DRIVERS LICENSE VS RIGHT TO TRAVEL
Thu Mar 29 14:52:35 2001


DRIVERS LICENSE VS RIGHT TO TRAVEL

George Lee McElroy wrote:

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

rk: I received Mr. McElroy's letter to DA Clay Johnson (see below) and was given permission to repost it. May I suggest readers also repost it widely for whomever has the intelligence to understand the conversion of our Unalienable Rights and Freedoms into the slavery of governmental "Privilege" where an Inalienable Right can be transformed into a Crime.

rk: It would seem that some people are waking up to this Insurance Industry/Government Bureaucracy-instigated Driver's Licensing "Construction Fraud" long perpetrated upon the gullible American People by its mind-controlling government.

rk: It appears that we are no longer a nation governed by Constitutional Law, but have slowly and incrementlly through mind control techniques (Propaganda) become a nation controlled and dominated by bureaucratic regulation which operates under the shadowy "color" of law. Such could not happen if the public "Traveller" who travels the public roadways in the "usual conveyance of the day," i.e., private automobile, for nonbusiness, private purposes were not coerced into entering a contract without full disclosure of the contract's terms being made at the
time. Signing that contract without full knowledge of its terms requires one to waive one's Contitutional Rights and accept the full terms of a regulatory contract with penalties and sanctions designed to police the actions and conduct of those who use the public roadways for business or profit.

rk: It is through such nefarious manipulations that confusion regarding the relationship of a people and with its government emerges, wherein the Master -- the people -- become the Servant, and the Servant -- the government -- becomes the Master. Such is the transformation from Freedom to Tyranny when Rights are converted into Privileges.

rk: Here in the United States, isn't it time we took back control of our country? Isn't it time we took back control over our lives?

rk: How many reading this have been damaged psychologically and financially by such fraud through fines, incarceration, and or coercive participation in mental health program followup, and are up for joining in and launching a Class Action Law Suit against the government in this issue?

rk; Yes, folks, the curtain has been lifted and it's about time YOU PAID ATTENTION to the WIZARD BEHIND IT.

Ray Karczewski

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clay Johnson
District Attorney
Josephine County, Oregon
500 N.W. 6th Street / Courthouse
Grants Pass, Oregon 97526

Mr. Johnson,

Free people have a right to travel on the roads that are provided by their servants for that purpose, using ordinary transportation of the day. Licensing cannot be required of free people because taking on the restrictions of a license requires the surrender of a right. The drivers license can be required of people who use the highways for trade, commerce or hire; that is, if they earn their living on the road, and they use extraordinary machines on the roads. In other words, if you are not using the highways for profit, you cannot be required to have a drivers license.

Personal liberty consists of the power of locomotion, of changing situations, of removing one's person to whatever place one's inclination may direct, without imprisonment or restraint unless by due process of law. Streets and highways are established and maintained for the purpose of travel and transportation by the public. Such travel may be for business or pleasure. The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived.
Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation that would abrogate them. The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime. There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of Constitutional rights. I believe a great fraud has been perpetrated against the free people of the United States of America. Be advised that fraud vitiates the most solemn contract.

I do not make my living on the roads. I have never applied for a grant of driving privileges from the State of Oregon in the form of a license. I was, however, on 10/15/2000, charged with the offense of "No Operators License". I was given a summons to appear in the Grants Pass Circuit Court. I was not required to sign the summons nor did I agree to appear. The state cannot produce any document signed by me granting an attachment of equity jurisdiction between the United States and me. The Josephine County court, without proper jurisdiction, has attached a liability to me in the amount of $218.75 and assigned it to the Oregon Department of Revenue for collection. I am being threatened with the issuance of a distraint warrant. The DMV has issued me a license number for tracking purposes so they can record a suspension of driving privileges. The state has converted my Constitutional right into a crime without due process of law.

At this time I respectfully demand that all records involving driving or operating privileges, all court records, all assignments, liabilities, and warrants having my name on them be destroyed. This communication, in addition to you, is also being sent to all the major newsgroups on the internet and other groups in the United States that are actively involved in restoring our sacred liberties that are being taken from us one by one by more or less rapid encroachment. I believe in the rule of law. I stand firmly against the abrogation of NATURAL RIGHTS endowed us by our creator.

Sincerely,

George Lee McElroy


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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rpforpres
November 24, 2011, 6:39pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Did they finally arrest MikeChristine, GrahamBonnet and Mobil Terminal ???????  It is about time.  Although in the case of these 3 terrorists, it would be better if the police shot first and asked questions later,


What in the hel* is wrong with you ?????

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BuckStrider
November 24, 2011, 7:01pm Report to Moderator

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Damn bumble! Reading is Fundimental


Bumble: So what actually possessed them to pull this car over in the first place?

Answer: He said the car was stopped about 10:30 a.m. for making an improper turn

Bumble: And did they arrest this guy for drugs? Did he have a gun?

Answer: No and No

Bumble: All I am reading is that it was a simple 'traffic violation'. Since when is a citizen 'forced' at gun point to get out of their car because of a traffic violation???

Answer: Some of the responding officers drew their guns when one or more of the occupants appeared to grab something from the back seat and try to conceal it,

Bumble: Yes schenectady is a drug ridden city with rampant crime....but does that mean that everyone who takes a wrong turn will be forced out of their car at 'gun point'??

Answer: Some of the responding officers drew their guns when one or more of the occupants appeared to grab something from the back seat and try to conceal it,

=====================================




"Approval ratings go up and down for various reasons... An example is the high post 911 support for
GWB even though he could be said to be responsible for the event." --- Box A Rox '9/11 Truther'

Melania is a bimbo... she is there to look at, not to listen to. --- Box A Rox and his 'War on Women'

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MobileTerminal
November 24, 2011, 7:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rpforpres


What in the hel* is wrong with you ?????




Just advocating violence upon us .. inciting others to take up weapons and extinguish our lives.  A complaint is being filed with Rotterdam Police Department.

Cant believe he actually threatened to kill us
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bumblethru
November 24, 2011, 7:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 147



Just advocating violence upon us .. inciting others to take up weapons and extinguish our lives.  A complaint is being filed with Rotterdam Police Department.

Cant believe he actually threatened to kill us


How can s/he cause harm when s/he doesn't even know who you are? DVR is notorious for false accusations and blatant lies! S/HE'S A TROLL FOR GOD'S SAKE! Why does anyone pay any wasted attention to her/him?


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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bumblethru
November 24, 2011, 7:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from BuckStrider
Damn bumble! Reading is Fundimental


Bumble: So what actually possessed them to pull this car over in the first place?

Answer: He said the car was stopped about 10:30 a.m. for making an improper turn

Bumble: And did they arrest this guy for drugs? Did he have a gun?

Answer: No and No

Bumble: All I am reading is that it was a simple 'traffic violation'. Since when is a citizen 'forced' at gun point to get out of their car because of a traffic violation???

Answer: Some of the responding officers drew their guns when one or more of the occupants appeared to grab something from the back seat and try to conceal it,

Bumble: Yes schenectady is a drug ridden city with rampant crime....but does that mean that everyone who takes a wrong turn will be forced out of their car at 'gun point'??

Answer: Some of the responding officers drew their guns when one or more of the occupants appeared to grab something from the back seat and try to conceal it,

=====================================


Probable cause, suspicion and an alleged traffic violation is a Forth Amendment slippery slope no matter how you cut it.IMHO


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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MobileTerminal
November 24, 2011, 7:30pm Report to Moderator
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My Lawyer tells me I've got a good case against Mr. DVOR.
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CICERO
November 24, 2011, 7:55pm Report to Moderator

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This incident should serve as a reminder.  If you are from out town and make an improper turn, you will have guns drawn on you if you fumble for your license and registration.  We have a bunch of trigger happy cops that draw their gun first and ask questions later.  And if they happen to pull the trigger, it will surely be justified.  Just another reason not to go into Schenectady.  If you don't get killed in the gang crossfire, you'll risk getting shot by the cops for a trafficviolation.


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bumblethru
November 24, 2011, 8:13pm Report to Moderator
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I'm pleased that the cops are capturing these 'dangerous traffic violation criminals'!! Even if they draw their guns when it is solely based on 'suspicion'!

It's too bad they don't patrol Hamilton Hill and Mt. Pleasant so they can capture those gangs and drug dealers!!!!  But then again they do shoot sick folks with '4" steak knives' too!

And when the city has more guns and ammo on the streets then the entire police force.......


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
November 24, 2011, 11:30pm Report to Moderator

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MobileTerminal must have been talking to his sock puppets again.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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alias
November 25, 2011, 6:38am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CICERO
This incident should serve as a reminder.  If you are from out town and make an improper turn, you will have guns drawn on you if you fumble for your license and registration.  We have a bunch of trigger happy cops that draw their gun first and ask questions later.  And if they happen to pull the trigger, it will surely be justified.  Just another reason not to go into Schenectady.  If you don't get killed in the gang crossfire, you'll risk getting shot by the cops for a trafficviolation.


Armchair Quarterback?
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alias
November 25, 2011, 6:38am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bumblethru
I'm pleased that the cops are capturing these 'dangerous traffic violation criminals'!! Even if they draw their guns when it is solely based on 'suspicion'!

It's too bad they don't patrol Hamilton Hill and Mt. Pleasant so they can capture those gangs and drug dealers!!!!  But then again they do shoot sick folks with '4" steak knives' too!

And when the city has more guns and ammo on the streets then the entire police force.......


Armchair Quarterback?
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visitor
November 25, 2011, 6:44am Report to Moderator
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A sick person who lunged at them witha knife.  Nice selective use of the facts.
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