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Box A Rox
November 16, 2011, 11:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow
Do a survey of the people and businesses living and working in the area where these protests are taking place.


Did you do a survey Shadow?  Did Benny do a survey before he came up with his "over 70% want them arrested"...
Because you believe something to be true, you still can't just make up statistics


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
November 16, 2011, 12:10pm Report to Moderator
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November 16, 2011 11:06am
PPP: #Occupy makes voters nostalgic for Tea Party
byDavid Freddoso Online Opinion Editor

Public Policy Polling, a Democratic firm that has been correct with most of its election surveys this year, has a new survey that indicates the Occupy movement is grating on people. Surprisingly, after two months of Occupiers defiling public spaces across America, voters are suddenly more fond of tea partiers than of occupiers.  Even better, Tea Party favorables are up ten points from a month ago among independent voters.

    The Occupy Wall Street movement is not wearing well with voters across the country. Only 33% now say that they are supportive of its goals, compared to 45% who say they oppose them. That represents an 11 point shift in the wrong direction for the movement's support compared to a month ago when 35% of voters said they supported it and 36% were opposed. Most notably independents have gone from supporting Occupy Wall Street's goals 39/34, to opposing them 34/42.

    Voters don't care for the Tea Party either, with 42% saying they support its goals to 45% opposed.  But asked whether they have a higher opinion of the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street movement the Tea Party wins out 43-37, representing a flip from last month when Occupy Wall Street won out 40-37 on that question. Again the movement with independents is notable- from preferring Occupy Wall Street 43-34, to siding with the Tea Party 44-40.
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senders
November 16, 2011, 6:11pm Report to Moderator
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WASHINGTON – A long-ignored proposal to ban insider trading by members of Congress gained new traction this week following news stories that reinforced the public's low opinion of Congress.





By Manuel Balce Ceneta, AP

Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., first proposed a ban on insider trading by House members.



The issue gained national attention Sunday night when the CBS news show 60 Minutes reported that lawmakers have exempted themselves and their staffers from a law that has sent some of their constituents to jail. The broadcast questioned stock trades made by House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. Both denied acting improperly.

Congress had an approval rating of 13% in a Gallup Poll released earlier this month, and a 9% rating in a CBS News-New York Times survey last month.

STORY: 57 House members among wealthy 1%


Democratic Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York first proposed the insider trading bill in 2006 after reading a Wall Street Journal story about day trading by the chief of staff of then-House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas.

"That story really infuriated me,'' Slaughter said Wednesday. "Now we've seen a groundswell of support and I'm glad the issue is getting the attention that it deserves. No one in this Congress should be using anything we know here for their own personal gain. That's not why our constituents sent us here."

In the first two days after Sunday's 60 Minutes segment, the number of House lawmakers sponsoring the bill rose from 9 to 28. By 4 p.m. Wednesday, it had reached 43.

Republican Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts announced Tuesday he is sponsoring the first Senate version.

Three other senators — Democrats Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan and Jon Tester of Montana — said Wednesday they plan to introduce a slightly different version of the proposal as early as next week.

Former lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is promoting a new book after serving three-and-a-half years in prison for influence-peddling, told CNBC on Friday he knows of up to a dozen members of Congress who have bragged about trading on insider information.

"All of a sudden, somebody from a background maybe in law, maybe in some other unrelated business area, is picking winners and losers in the market," Abramoff said.

The 60 Minutes broadcast relied on the findings in another book, Throw Them All Out, by Peter Schweizer of the Hoover Institution.

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., whose stock trading was criticized in Schweizer's book and the 60 Minutes report, issued a letter Wednesday stating "the book is absolutely false and factually incorrect'' in accusing him of short-selling General Electric stock. Short-selling refers to betting that a stock will drop in price.

According to Bachus, his purchases were options that would earn a return only if the stock rose in price.

"If I somehow had 'inside information' that GE was in dire straits, why on earth would I have purchased call options in the hope that the company's stock price would increase?'' Bachus asked in his letter to the book's publisher, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

Stock trading by congressional lawmakers who are meeting behind closed doors with regulators and corporate executives at roughly the same time at least creates the appearance of impropriety.

Many members of Congress are much wealthier than average Americans and have more extensive stock holdings. An analysis of lawmakers' 2010 personal financial disclosure reports conducted by the Center for Responsive Politics for USA TODAY found 11% have a net worth over $9 million and 250 are millionaires.

The average lawmaker annually buys 18 stocks worth $402,000 and sells 22 stocks worth $619,000, according to a study last year by Andrew Eggers of Yale University and Jens Hainmueller of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Their study covered 650 people who served in the House or Senate between 2004 and 2008.

But Eggers and Hainmueller also found that the stock portfolios held by members of Congress performed worse than average.

"Members of Congress are not investing geniuses," they wrote. "Most of what they know about political developments is probably quickly incorporated into (stock values) and many members likely recognize the possible political costs of trying to make money on whatever private political information they do possess.''

Craig Holman of Public Citizen's Congress Watch said Wednesday the new wave of publicity could give the proposed bill its first real chance of passage.

"This is a story that really resonates with a public that's already upset with Congress,'' Holman said.


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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CICERO
November 16, 2011, 7:29pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


The Corporate/Government issue isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
Their protests concerning Fracking in NY State isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
The Occupy Financial concerns about our bank systemic failure isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
The Occupy issue about higher education concerns making college affordable to all New Yorkers, but isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".


If this is what they are protesting, I would say it's worthy.  But the message that is getting conveyed though the media is they are protesting "rich" Americans.  Not the fascist like corporate and government relationship.  I have neither read about, or watch on TV, news coverage that blamed government and their roll in the corporatism.  I find it amazing that it is not MORE widely known about Obama and the Democrat Party's willingness and actual solicitation of TENS OF MILLIONS in Wall Street money.  More money than the Republican primary candidates received in Wall St. contributions COMBINED.

In Nancy Pelosi's own words, occupy is true 'astroturf'.  If this were real protesters that were informed and took the time to study the reasons why the banking system is structured the way it is in America, and come to the realization that BOTH parties are guilty of rigging the system for their personal enrichment, it would have my support.  But since this is a purely politically charged movement, or at least that is the slant the media reports it as.  In my opinion, it's nothing more than a gathering of anarchist organized by Obama to polarize the nation pitting rich versus everybody else in hopes of winning the election.  

Occupy is political theater meant to energize Obama/Acorn supporters as Obama positions himself as the peoples champion fighting for the little guy.  Not one honest reporter has asked Obama or any other democrat how they can support the occupy Wall St. message, when they themselves accept MILLION is campaign contributions from Wall St. and voted to bailout corporate banks.

The whole thing is contrived.  The tea party people were more upset about being lied to by the RINO Republican Party than upset with Democrats.  The tea party is tearing the Republican Party to ribbons.  The Occupiers haven't uttered one negative word about democrats and their role in American corporatism.  Do they believe Democrats had no role in it?


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Box A Rox
November 16, 2011, 8:09pm Report to Moderator

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The Corporate/Government issue isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
Their protests concerning Fracking in NY State isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
The Occupy Financial concerns about our bank systemic failure isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
The Occupy issue about higher education concerns making college affordable to all New Yorkers, but isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".
Quoted from CICERO


If this is what they are protesting, I would say it's worthy.  ?


The Corporate/Government issue isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".




Their protests concerning Fracking in NY State isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".


The Occupy Financial concerns about our bank systemic failure isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".



The Occupy issue about higher education concerns making college affordable to all New Yorkers, but isn't about "getting paid for doing nothing".



If you want to know what Occupy is all about, then take a trip to downtown Albany and see for yourself.  I did.
If you'd rather listen to what the media tells you, then you'll know what the media thinks.





The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
November 17, 2011, 7:40am Report to Moderator

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Thanks Box, it is clear now.   The occupiers camp in public parks to protest their particular issue, not one common issue; instead it's a gathering of MANY issues.  I still don't know who or where they are directing their frustration toward to resolve these issues.  Is it toward corporations?  Is it "rich" people?  Is it government?  What are the occupier’s solutions to their particular issues?  

When the occupiers say they want to end corporate welfare, do they want to end it by stopping government from giving the corporations welfare by electing new representatives, or do they want to destroy corporations so there is no corporations left in America for government to give money to?

How does fracking put a person in the 99%?  That one doesn't even make sense.

BTW, I did go down there to see for myself, it is pretty much what you described, a disorganized mob with no direction or solutions.  Some are legitimate civilized protesters with a particular issue that actually deficate in toilets, and go home and take a shower at the end of the day,  some are anarchists, and some are college kids looking to get high and laid.  


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Box A Rox
November 17, 2011, 8:26am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO
Thanks Box, it is clear now.   The occupiers camp in public parks to protest their particular issue, not one common issue; instead it's a gathering of MANY issues.  I still don't know who or where they are directing their frustration toward to resolve these issues.

  


Little by little the Occupy movement is gaining on the problem.
Yesterday Cicero didn't get the issues... today he does.

Today Cicero "still doesn't know who or where they are directing their frustration toward to resolve these issues."
Maybe by tomorrow Cicero will understand that HE is who they are directing their frustration... HE is the target of their
protest.

In a few weeks maybe Cicero will be joining (in spirit, not in body) the Occupy movement, once he realizes that
HE wants the same things that they want for America.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
November 17, 2011, 8:34am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO

How does fracking put a person in the 99%?  That one doesn't even make sense.
  


Fracking (IMO) is just one more example of the 1% taking from the rest of us, a natural resource that we all need to
survive.  Poisoning the ground water that we drink, and contaminating the land for a profit is acceptable for the 1%
since they will always have enough money to buy clean water and safe land.   Once the water and land are polluted,
and the gas is gone, the 1% leave the 99%  to clean up their mess.



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
November 17, 2011, 9:14am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


In a few weeks maybe Cicero will be joining (in spirit, not in body) the Occupy movement, once he realizes that
HE wants the same things that they want for America.


Maybe...If I knew the means to their end.  If the means is by greatly reducing the government's role in my everyday life then I support them.  If the means is cutting all corporate welfare to ALL corporations not just cutting it to Republican corporate interests in favor of Democrat corporate interest, then I support them.  BUT...If the means is to INCREASE the power of government and get government more involved in my life with more laws, more regulations, more bureaucracy, then I'm against it.  

The occupiers and I may agree on the ends on many of their issues.  It is the means used to get to the end is where I think we disagree.


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CICERO
November 17, 2011, 9:20am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox

Maybe by tomorrow Cicero will understand that HE is who they are directing their frustration... HE is the target of their protest.


Well, if they want my support, let me give them an hint. Camping and crapping in the streets and public parks in our major cities isn't persuading me to follow them.  

Also, at the current moment, fracking is the least of my concerns.  My food and energy bills, and my taxes are more of an immediate concern.  Neither is occupy education, that doesn't grab my attention.


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Shadow
November 17, 2011, 11:01am Report to Moderator
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Just try and take all the stimulus away from Pelosi and you'll see the Dem politicians true colors. Try raising taxes on Heinz Corp and listen to Kerry howl. Both sides are guilty of the greed that has caused this debt crisis.
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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
November 17, 2011, 2:02pm Report to Moderator

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Personally, I believe that Governor Cuomo is acting 1000% correctly in enforcing the curfew in the state portion of the park.  It is too bad that Mayor Jennings didn't stand up and enforce the laws like he should have from Day #1.  The Occupy Albany group should have been required to obtain the proper permits and abide by ALL laws and ordinances from Day #1.   As for Mr. Soares - the District Attorney - I believe he is abrogating his sworn duty to enforce the laws and deal with criminal activity.    



George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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Box A Rox
November 17, 2011, 2:04pm Report to Moderator

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Personally, I believe that Governor Cuomo is acting 1000% correctly in enforcing the curfew in the state portion of the park.  It is too bad that Mayor Jennings didn't stand up and enforce the laws like he should have from Day #1.  The Occupy Albany group should have been required to obtain the proper permits and abide by ALL laws and ordinances from Day #1.   As for Mr. Soares - the District Attorney - I believe he is abrogating his sworn duty to enforce the laws and deal with criminal activity.    



IMO, you don't need a permit to express your Constitutional Rights.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
November 17, 2011, 2:11pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


IMO, you don't need a permit to express your Constitutional Rights.


I don't believe there is a constitutional right to pitch your tents in flower beds and cause thousands of dollars of damage to a public park   No one has a constitutional right to erect structures without a permit in public park nor to bring in heaters and other devices which are not normally allowed under city ordinances.

The Constitution does give them the right to Assemble and to Free Speech ---- all of the other stuff is just reckless and criminal behavior.

Furthermore,  every other citizen has a Constitutional right to use and enjoy that park.

So -- for the record -- if I had been Mayor of Albany ... the Occupy Albany folks would have been allowed to peacefully walk on the sidewalks and lawn until sunset ..... and then asked to leave .. if they had refused ... the police would have rounded them up and taken them away.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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Box A Rox
November 17, 2011, 2:19pm Report to Moderator

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Our right of assembly is a Constitutional Right as defined by the US Supreme Court.   What we perceive it to be
is irrelevant.
Many of the civil rights marches were illegal according to local or state ordinances, but the constitutional right of
assembly took precedence.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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