Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
The Renissance Arrives...
Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community    Outside Rotterdam  ›  The Renissance Arrives... Moderators: Admin
Users Browsing Forum
AdSense and 157 Guests

The Renissance Arrives...  This thread currently has 1,503 views. |
3 Pages « 1 2 3 Recommend Thread
bumblethru
September 30, 2011, 10:06am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
Quoted from rachel72
Fact is Cornell's is just as crooked as Fireside, by your definition SB. There are two major difference though:

1) Metroplex gave huge loans to Cornells with the county taxpayer money

2) Cornell's was bailed out - not only with Hume, but the Plex is helping Hume deal with the back-tax problems.

Fireside didn't get government hand outs, yet Cornell's received LOTS of Plex money and owes quadruple in taxes and loans.

Another reason why Cornell's should have not moved and should never have listened to Metroplex. If they were going to fail, they would have failed long ago without racking up such large debt.


This is yet another example of the socialist economic system that is alive and well in schenectady county. The metroplex/gillen/stratton/mccarthy/savage pick the winners at the taxpayers expense. And most agree that cornells should have NEVER taken on such a large debt and relocated. They get no more business now then they did before the move. Yet they took on a huge debt. And there was a time in the not too distant past that they also could not pay their employees without checks bouncing. Did that ever happen at their previous location?



When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 30 - 41
GrahamBonnet
September 30, 2011, 5:06pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
9,643
Reputation
66.67%
Reputation Score
+16 / -8
Time Online
131 days 7 hours 47 minutes
Quoted from Smoking Bananas
my pov is that fireside willfully failed to paid over an extended period of time.. like years.. that is criminal, no?


Willful is hard to prove. Is Cornell's willfully not paying? I personally never filed late, but I can see how a restaurant might get into trouble. So even if it is not criminal, would you say it is bad citizenship and/or fiscal incompetence?


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
Logged
Private Message Reply: 31 - 41
senders
September 30, 2011, 7:01pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Quoted Text
YOUR WORDS.,..,.,"ILLEGAL"

It's illegal to not pay taxes, correct?????     Huh?   Come on....yes or no?


I guess those folks in the Junction that dont have a home to pay taxes on will be 'illegal' after the 30day extention.....I'm not comparing the business and those folks only the ideology of taxes and the 'compelling to pay'.....

how about a PILOT all around? for EVERYONE.....FLAT RATE.....IF THE GOVERNMENT CANT BUDGET WE WILL HELP THEM....can the masses demand such? are there laws to make it so?


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 32 - 41
Smoking Bananas
October 1, 2011, 8:33am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,320
Reputation
42.86%
Reputation Score
+3 / -4
Time Online
11 days 5 hours 9 minutes
why confuse the issue with cornells? fireside closed because it was a failed business. cornells was bailed out -- so what.... if fireside was bailed out, u would be screaming about that.

i donlt quite understand why u keep putting in irrelevent data...

btw, cornells moved because it listens to mayor al and george robertson, then in charge. metroplex got involved afterwards.. the timeline is this

the city approaced cornells to move to little italy.. promising them money.. then it failed to deliver, cornells went to metroplex for help the old metroplex, pre-gillen, and the board said yes, because back then they were giving money away

was it a bad paid,, for sure..

has metroplex bailed them out in recent years, no..

should cornells close? why? it found a savior who is using their own money -- no public money..


I love a good joke, that is why I come here.

Remember: B. slimey equals propaganda  


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 33 - 41
GrahamBonnet
October 1, 2011, 9:02am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
9,643
Reputation
66.67%
Reputation Score
+16 / -8
Time Online
131 days 7 hours 47 minutes
I am not bashing Cornells. I am just saying that a lot of businesses and individuals dont pay their taxes. And what I want to know from you is that what makes them crooked?


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
Logged
Private Message Reply: 34 - 41
bumblethru
October 1, 2011, 10:08am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes

The bottom line is that cornells over extended themselves and could not pay their taxes. The fact of the matter is that business in the city isn't as lucrative as being reported. The move to the so called little italy was to increase their business and the area in general. That didn't happen. In fact just the opposite........cornells would have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for this bailout. This is just a band aid covering a hemorrhaging artery. It is just buying them a bit more time, but it won't put off the inevitable.

Very short sighted.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 35 - 41
Smoking Bananas
October 1, 2011, 10:12am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,320
Reputation
42.86%
Reputation Score
+3 / -4
Time Online
11 days 5 hours 9 minutes
if u do not pay your taxes, yes, u are breaking the law. -- whether u refuse to pay them on a moral or politcal grounds is moot. by law, u have to pay your taxes...


I love a good joke, that is why I come here.

Remember: B. slimey equals propaganda  


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 36 - 41
Smoking Bananas
October 1, 2011, 10:19am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,320
Reputation
42.86%
Reputation Score
+3 / -4
Time Online
11 days 5 hours 9 minutes
folks, please ignore anything B.Slimey says. The man is a political operative for the republicans. he will lie, cheat, steal to advance the republican cause and will slander anyone in his way, the man is no good.


I love a good joke, that is why I come here.

Remember: B. slimey equals propaganda  


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 37 - 41
rachel72
October 1, 2011, 10:20am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,249
Reputation
82.35%
Reputation Score
+14 / -3
Time Online
68 days 1 hours 3 minutes
Quoted from bumblethru

The bottom line is that cornells over extended themselves and could not pay their taxes. The fact of the matter is that business in the city isn't as lucrative as being reported. The move to the so called little italy was to increase their business and the area in general. That didn't happen. In fact just the opposite........cornells would have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for this bailout. This is just a band aid covering a hemorrhaging artery. It is just buying them a bit more time, but it won't put off the inevitable.

Very short sighted.


The went down when Metroplex became involved. Not quite the economic development a business wants.

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 38 - 41
Smoking Bananas
October 1, 2011, 10:23am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,320
Reputation
42.86%
Reputation Score
+3 / -4
Time Online
11 days 5 hours 9 minutes
nope. the connection to metroplex had nothing to do with the misfortunes of the business. but keep trying to spin the truth..

as for the junction.. they shoud not pay their taxes. i wouldn;t


I love a good joke, that is why I come here.

Remember: B. slimey equals propaganda  


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 39 - 41
rachel72
October 1, 2011, 10:37am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,249
Reputation
82.35%
Reputation Score
+14 / -3
Time Online
68 days 1 hours 3 minutes
Only after Cornells moved and became involved with the Plex - it failed and failed miserably.

You surely don't believe that the Metroplex would loan hundreds of thousands of dollars to Cornells if it was a failing business? Come on SB, you can't defend the Metroplex if it handed over loans to a failing restaurant.

Metroplex took a lucrative business, moved it and it failed. Not quite the Midas touch.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 40 - 41
senders
October 2, 2011, 7:16am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Quoted Text
Prior to the Civil War (1861–1865), America's revenue needs were met primarily through tariffs, duties, and other consumption taxes. In 1861, however, Congress adopted an income tax aimed at the nation's most affluent to finance the Civil War. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the income tax in Springer v. U.S. (1864). And in 1871, when the need for government revenue declined, Congress repealed the income tax, thereby placing the burden of financing government again almost entirely on tariffs and duties, increasing the cost of goods paid by workers. Thus, the repeal of the income tax shifted a portion of the tax burden away from the affluent to consumers generally.

Many Americans and populist politicians saw the tariff-based tax system as protecting capitalists by immunizing their products from competition from imports. Some also resented the wealthy, who were sometimes seen as shirking their responsibility to help pay for government services. Thus, the idea and appeal of an income tax—reducing tariffs and increasing the tax burden on the affluent—never fully retreated from the American political landscape. There was, in fact, constant political pressure on Congress to restore the income tax; Congress introduced more than sixty bills between 1871 and 1894 to restore the income tax, culminating in passage of an income tax as part of the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act of 1894. Less than a year after its passage, however, the U.S. Supreme Court held that portions of the income tax levied by the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act of 1894 were unconstitutional.

The Social, Economic, and Political Context of the Income Tax Debate

An understanding of the controversy and public policy debate surrounding the income tax at the close of the nineteenth century requires an exploration of that era's social, economic and political context. After the Civil War, the Republican Party dominated national politics and local politics in states that had aligned with the Union in the Civil War. The interests of those states—or rather the interests of the powerful political actors within those states—dictated much of the Republican Party's platform during that era.

The former Union states were centers of finance and industry and contained areas of concentrated wealth. This era, sometimes called the "Gilded Age," was noted for its robber barons, industrialists and financiers who amassed great wealth often at the expense of the working class. The most important issues to Republicans were relatively high tariffs to support American industry and limit foreign competition with domestic products; maintaining a gold standard for currency to check inflation; and governmental regulation of the work force (both in limiting relief networks for the unemployed and in preventing workers from organizing unions). The Republican Party of the Gilded Age tended to incorporate the positions of the great industrialists and financiers on these issues into its platform.

This was not, however, an era of universal prosperity or stability; rather, it was an era of extremes—great poverty for many amidst great wealth for a few. The average family income was less than $400 and fewer than 90 percent of American families had income in excess of $12,000. It was a hard time, especially for wage earners in cities and family farmers in the rural West and South. Many farmers and wage earners viewed government policy as favoring the interests of the financiers and capitalists, with high tariffs serving as an example of this preference. Such tariffs raised the price of domestic goods, imposing a steep tax burden on consumers. It was from this environment that populism emerged as a national political force at the end of the nineteenth century.

Populists, along with farm and labor political groups, sought lower tariffs. To replace the lost tariff revenue, some populist leaders favored reintroducing an income tax, which would also addressing the problem of the concentration of vast wealth in the hands of a few citizens.

The Democratic Party began to adopt some of these populist ideas. In 1892 Democrat Grover Cleveland won back the White House on a platform that favored lower tariffs and duties. Some Democratic members of Congress also sought to reinstitute an income tax.

The Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act

In 1894, Cleveland supported the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act, whose original purpose was to lower tariffs substantially. In the House, however, Benton McMillan, a Tennessee representative, amended the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act to include an income tax. The amendment began:


That from and after the 1st day of January, 1895, there shall be levied, collected, and paid annually upon the gains, profits, and income of every person residing in the United States, or any citizen of the United States residing abroad, derived in each preceding calendar year, whether derived from any kind of property, rents, interest, dividends, or salaries, or from any profession, trade, employment, or vocation carried on in the United States or elsewhere, a tax of 2 per cent on the amount so derived over and above $4,000.

Thus, a flat 2 percent tax would be imposed on income in excess of $4,000. Fewer than 5 percent of Americans earned sufficient income to have to pay the tax. The amendment also imposed a 2 percent tax on the income of corporations and certain associations, although there were exceptions for charitable organizations, mutual banks, and insurance companies.

The income-tax amendment was bitterly opposed by all Republicans and many northern Democrats, as the tax would disproportionately affect citizens of northern states. The amendment, however, found a fiery and gifted advocate in Nebraska Congressman William Jennings Bryan. Responding to those who argued that subjecting only the wealthy to the tax was socialism, Bryant retorted that "they weep more because fifteen millions are to be collected from the rich than they do at the collection of three hundred millions upon the goods which the poor consume."

The Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act, with the income-tax amendment, passed in the House. Its fate in the Senate was a different story. Republicans and northern Democrats, oriented toward protecting manufacturing and financial interests, generally opposed the lowered tariffs contained in the House bill. They were joined by senators from Louisiana (interested in protective tariffs on sugar), and West Virginia and Maryland (interested in protective tariffs on coal and iron). Ultimately, the Senate gutted the provisions that lowered tariffs. But the income tax amendment—despite fierce opposition from Republicans and northern Democrats, who labeled it "class legislation" and a communistic idea foreign to American ideals—passed. It passed, perhaps in large part, because America was in the midst of a depression and its revenue needs might not be met by tariffs and duties alone. President Cleveland, furious that many Democratic senators had deserted his call for lower tariffs, allowed the bill to become law without his signature.

Pollock v. Farmers' Loan and Trust Co.

Litigation on the constitutionality of the income tax commenced almost immediately after the tax became law. Opponents of the tax argued principally that the tax was a direct tax, which Article I, Section 2, of the Constitution requires be "apportioned among the several states" according to their populations. The classic direct tax would have been a tax on property. The income tax, on the other hand, taxed wages and earnings derived from property. Supporters of the tax argued that a tax on earnings was not a direct tax on the property itself, thus constitutional as an indirect tax.

The U.S. Supreme Court consolidated several separate cases challenging the tax in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan and Trust Co. (1865). The Supreme Court, with one justice not participating because of illness, held, in a 5–3 vote, that the income tax as applied to rents earned on real property was an unconstitutional direct tax on that property. The Court also held, on federalism grounds, that the federal government lacked constitutional authority to tax income from state government bonds. The Pollock Court, however, split 4–4 on the constitutionality of an income tax to income produced by personal property, such as stocks and bonds. The Supreme Court granted a rehearing on the case, allowing all nine judges to participate. On rehearing, the Pollock Court, by a 5-4 vote, held that a tax on income from personal property was also constitutionally infirm as an unapportioned direct tax. The decision declared the entire statute unconstitutional, as the court determined that enforcing the remaining portions of the law was inconsistent with the intent of Congress.

In finding the income tax unconstitutional, the court distinguished a case that affirmed the constitutionality of an income tax during the Civil War. The Pollock Court held that the earlier case had only considered the constitutionality of a tax on wages, not a tax on income from property. Some commentators, then and now, have argued that the Pollock Court's distinction of Springer was disingenuous.

Justice Harlan issued a stinging and memorable dissent in Pollock, considered by some as one of the great dissents in U.S. Supreme Court history. The dissent traced Supreme Court jurisprudence on the federal taxing power, concluding that Pollock was a radical and unfortunate break from the legal precedent. Justice Harlan also criticized the decision as one intended to favor the wealthy, who derive their wealth from capital rather than labor:


[B]y its present construction of the Constitution the court, for the first time in all its history, declares that our government has been so framed that, in matters of taxation for its support and maintenance those who have incomes derived from the renting of real estate or from the leasing or using of tangible personal property, or who own invested personal property, bonds, stocks and investments of whatever kind, have privileges that cannot be accorded to those having incomes derived from the labor of their hands, or the exercise of their skill, or the use of their brains.

Ultimately, the nation enacted the 16th Amendment, which made the income tax a part of the nation's Constitutional scheme, rendering Pollock void.

Bibliography

Grossfeld, Bernhard, and James D. Bryce. "A Brief Comparative History of the Origins of the Income Tax in Great Britain, Germany and the United States." American Journal of Tax Policy 211 (1983).

Seligman, Edwin R.A. The Income Tax: A Study of the History, Theory and Practice ofIncome Taxation at Home and Abroad. New York: Macmillan, 1914.

Weisman, Steven R. The Great Tax Wars. New York: Simon & Schuster, 2002.


Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/wilson-gorman-tariff-act#ixzz1Zd6yos00


to little time and sooooo many wars........


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 41 - 41
3 Pages « 1 2 3 Recommend Thread
|


Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread