Until a complete investigation is conducted and its results made public - there is nothing gained by making any comments on the incident.
I'm willing to accept that an investigation can/should be conducted. However, an investigation will prove ONLY TWO possibilities:
1. Cops going overboard (another bad cop story) OR 2. Schenectady is very very very dangerous, with gunmen on the streets where little children are playing
Both results just will show how BAD Schenectady is
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
I'm willing to accept that an investigation can/should be conducted. However, an investigation will prove ONLY TWO possibilities:
1. Cops going overboard (another bad cop story) OR 2. Schenectady is very very very dangerous, with gunmen on the streets where little children are playing
Both results just will show how BAD Schenectady is
The gunman was probably just catching the bus to go downtown to catch a show at Proctors and grab a bite to eat at Bombers. You don't want to go to Bombers unarmed. After all, the shotgun shooter is still running around out there.
Where is there an effective, quality police department where the chief lives outside the city? I know NYC has a residency requirement. The department heads living outside the city are not particularly effective for the non-cop jobs either, are they?
How many people realize how dangerous the city is?
How many people reading these messages have realized that if this guy had not been shot by the cops (whether justified or not), that the story about the guy---Rivera---the incident that occurred with Rivera on Thursday night would have NEVER made the news. Rivera would have been going around Schenectady with a gun and the people that live in the with would have never known it.
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
Another crack journalism job by the Gazetto. If the robbery never was reported it never happened-no? Just like if we don't ever mention gangs there can't be a gang problem. Ditto for public employee residency. No reporting=no problemo. The police are not operating in a vacuum. Entire systems are collapsing and they have to pick up the pieces.
Residents wary after Schenectady shooting Sunday, August 14, 2011 By David Lombardo (Contact) Gazette Reporter
SCHENECTADY — A Schenectady street struggled to return to normalcy a day after a man was fatally shot there by city police. It was a more animated scene on Saturday morning at the corner of State Street and Grove Street, where police arrested a bereaved family member of the deceased Luis Rivera. Rivera, 32, had been shot late Friday afternoon following a scuffle with three police officers, who fired 14 shots at him once they saw his gun and he refused their order to “get down.” Iris Vazquez, 24, of Schenectady, repeatedly tried to cross crime scene tape to set up a memorial for her relative. Police said they warned her multiple times not to violate the crime scene, but Vazquez became belligerent around 10:45 a.m. and was taken into custody. Vazquez was charged with obstructing governmental administration in the second degree, a class A misdemeanor, and disorderly conduct, a violation. She was released later in the day by a city judge on her own recognizance. No memorial could be seen at the crime scene later in the day. A few hours after that incident, police removed the barriers that had blocked traffic to Grove Street, with only a few remnants of tape left dangling on either end of the street. Thomas Smith, a nearby resident, said that people in the residential neighborhood appreciated being able to move about freely. “People were happy that they could get through and walk back and forth,” he said from a stoop on State Street looking out over Grove Street. Other streets off State Street had kids moving around on Saturday afternoon. Smith said Grove Street is normally teeming with children. “Their parents need to hold them in because that was a scary situation,” Smith said of the events the day before. With the familiar ring of an ice cream truck in the background, he predicted that it might take a few days before parents feel comfortable letting their children play near the crime scene. Smith, who said he knew people who saw the incident, wondered whether things could have been handled without lethal force. “I think they should have Tased him or something,” he said.........................>>>>.......................>>>>...........................http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2011/aug/14/0814_shooting/
Eyewitness accounts contradict police version of deadly shooting
SCHENECTADY - Now we hear the other side of the story. On Friday night, Schenectady Police got to tell their version of how Luis Rivera died. Twenty-four hours later, family members and eyewitnesses shared a different account. What everyone agrees on is that 33-year old Luis Rivera is dead and that Schenectady Police offers shot him. It seems everything else about his tragic death is in dispute. Late Saturday night, family, friends, and strangers gathered on Grove Place, just off lower State Street. They attached a Puerto Rican flag in between a pair of closely planted utility poles, added balloons, and several lit candles to mark the spot where Luis Rivera took his last breaths Friday afternoon, killed in a hail of police gun fire. Jevon Jones was one of the mourners, returning to the spot where he says he saw Luis Rivera die. "He never froze and he started running," Jones recalled. "Why would you shoot him and keep shooting him while he was running?" Alecia Charland was also among the crowd. She has serious issues with the police version of what went down. "There wasn't three officers shooting," she insists, "There were about five of them." Rivera's younger brother, Alex, was very candid about Luis' troubled past. "My brother made a lot of mistakes like anyone else," he said. "But nobody deserves to die like he did. It was an execution." He added: "The gun was inoperable, it didn't work, and it wasn't loaded. Luis brought it so he could sell it in a cash for guns (program)" He also said his mother was having a hard time dealing with Luis' death. "He was her first born and her first buried," Alex said, "She doesn't even want to live any more." Luis Rivera would have turned 34 next week. He leaves behind three children, all of them boys, ages 8, 10, and 15. He also leaves his wife Yeshiba. Among the stories people had to tell included: Rivera tossed the gun away and then got shot; Rivera's back was turned; Rivera was handcuffed when he was shot. It's difficult to know who was there or if someone has a hidden agenda. Police say they have dashboard video that corroborates the version told by their three men who did the shooting, a video they say they can't share with the public just yet. Alex Rivera had one more thing to say: "There are three versions of what happened to my brother: My version, the police version, and the truth."
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Another crack journalism job by the Gazetto. If the robbery never was reported it never happened-no?
Just like ya never hear of the vandalism at proctors....cause it doesn't happen. proctors is the ONLY area in the city that has no vandalism, crime, piss on sidewalks..etc...........or..........robberies!!! It is, after all, the safest place in schenectady. tic
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Just like ya never hear of the vandalism at proctors....cause it doesn't happen. proctors is the ONLY area in the city that has no vandalism, crime, piss on sidewalks..etc...........or..........robberies!!! It is, after all, the safest place in Schenectady. tic
The safe was robbed and a wall blown out-but no real crime. So says Death Ray, Mercury Morris and McCarthy! It must be so. I read it in the Gazetto!
As I don't believe everything reported in the media or said by cops ...........
Just my opinion
First a felon is not allowed to be in possession of a gun, I don't believe the gun buy back story. As this man was assaulted the night before sounds like maybe a personal/gang dispute and maybe he feared for his life or wanted to retaliate. In either case he should not have been in possession of the gun. If he was in his own home and someone broke in then I wouldn't fault him.
When he was confronted by police he should have dropped and not said a word.
I think the police video should be made available to the family ASAP so they can see for themselves how events occurred. And see no reason why it can't be made public (with the actual death omitted) so any speculation either way can be put to rest.
The question is, should police shoot a suspected armed person that is fleeing? The way it sounds now, the victim wasn't drawing the weapon on the police, but rather running away. By no means am I condemning the police, but in a country where it seems more and more we are handing our liberties over to the state, the police seem to have less and less restrictions on when they can use lethal or semi-lethal force against the citizens. Our soldiers have stricter rules of engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan. The police can fire on a suspect without being fired upon or a weapon drawn upon them, and that's considered proper protocol.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but it seems as if the response by police are becoming more and more violent than they used to be.
The question is, should police shoot a suspected armed person that is fleeing? The way it sounds now, the victim wasn't drawing the weapon on the police, but rather running away. By no means am I condemning the police, but in a country where it seems more and more we are handing our liberties over to the state, the police seem to have less and less restrictions on when they can use lethal or semi-lethal force against the citizens. Our soldiers have stricter rules of engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan. The police can fire on a suspect without being fired upon or a weapon drawn upon them, and that's considered proper protocol.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but it seems as if the response by police are becoming more and more violent than they used to be.
Perhaps it is do to the fact that schenectadians live in and with a very violent element every single day and yet are told by their elected officials and the 'people's gazette' that it's 'better than ever'. And perhaps if the schenetadians were told the TRUTH, that the area is run by gangs and drug dealers and that crime is overspilling into the towns, they wouldn't question cops behavior.
But when the electorate is told on a daily bases that schenectady is 'safe' and 'better than ever', and that there are '5,000' new jobs, and never once mention the increase in crime and the creation of TWO hamilton hills now....they are shocked and question the behavior of law enforcement. (they are getting mixed messages here)
Schenectady is one of the most dangerous areas in the capital district. And if the cops don't want to be questioned every single time they draw their gun.........they better start advising their elected officials and the people's gazetto to get the 'truth out there.
Personally, I think they should have tazed the guy as opposed to tazing the 'kid' at rollarama.....yes?
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
The question is, should police shoot a suspected armed person that is fleeing? The way it sounds now, the victim wasn't drawing the weapon on the police, but rather running away.
Thats's why I think it important for the video to be released. Many questions that could be answered. Was he handcuffed? Did he pull out a gun? Was he an immediate threat? When he was "subdued" briefly could a tazer have been used?
It is not anti-police to investigate what happened. It is surprising to me the number of people complaining that the police will be investigated. Really? Go live someplace like Argentina, maybe, if you want the "authorities" to kill whomever they want, with no explanation. To the people in the neighborhood, if this guy was no problem, how did the police know about him in the first place? Didn't someone in the neighborhood summon them? And if he indeed was just walking with a gun he intended to turn in, wouldn't the logical thing to do be to just turn it over? Isn't that what you or I would do? From what I understand, this guy had recent contact with the police. That would've been the time to try to resolve his issues, lawfully, like an adult. I think that had we implemented that anti-crime program back when Jim Tedisco wanted to, it might have helped. We desperately need to re-establish law and order in these areas, for the sake of everyone who lives here. Which doesn't include some who make good money off of the taxpayers. Our government has written off whole neighborhoods, with this being the result. A tragedy. So the ALCO site is "beautiful riverfront property". DUH! We already have a BEAUTIFUL, and HISTORIC neighborhood along the river, being let go to hell. I don't want tax dollars being used in any way to build a cheesy replacement stockade next to the ruins. Stop writing off our neighborhoods. Step outside Fort Metroplex, and you could be shot. Actually, you could be shot downtown too, but we won't talk about that.
Why is there a Puerto RIcan flag? This is the United States. There should be an American flag. If people don't like America, then why are they here?
If a cop is of Itailan decent and is killed on the job, would the community hang an Italian flag up where the cop was shot? When a black person is shot (regardless of by whom), is there a flag of some African country flown?
I so want to believe the actions of the police were justified within law and the circumstances that existed. The only think that I believe, at this point, that could be a problem is why was it 14 shots? Two, maybe three I could understand.
The thing about the guns for cash thing. I'm sure this guy, with his immense criminal past, would not have any permission, in NYS or anywhere in the country, to have a gun in his possession. So would it be correct to say that his having a gun on his person was illegal?
These people who say he was going to do that guns for cash thing, well, do they think that the police are mind readers?
If the guy was merely doing that guns for cash thing, then why did he run? Oh, yeah, let's blame it on the culture. The culture of people in that part of the city is to distrust the police so everyone and anyone in the city is justified when they run from a cop when they have a gun in their pocket. They can't be found at fault for that.
In any event, witnesses say one thing, the cameras show what really happened.
Again, I want to hope that this is not yet another extreme bad cop story for the city. But I smell a multimilion dollar lawsuit coming, people looking for easy money.
I am also concerned about the day coming when cops will no longer be able to carry guns, but the criminals will.
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
Logged
Another crack journalism job by the Gazetto. If the robbery never was reported it never happened-no? Just like if we don't ever mention gangs there can't be a gang problem. Ditto for public employee residency. No reporting=no problemo. The police are not operating in a vacuum. Entire systems are collapsing and they have to pick up the pieces.
