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CICERO
August 22, 2011, 5:50pm Report to Moderator

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The super rich like Buffett and Block are screaming "tax the rich"  to distract Americans what the REAL cause of America's ills.  That is THE CENTRAL BANKS controlling the currency for which the super rich benefit from.  The rich could care less about getting taxed at a higher rate, they will just pass that cost on to the consumer.  

Go figure, a tax preparation company wanting higher taxes.  I wonder what H&R block thinks about a simplified tax code and a flat tax?

What corporate boards does Warren E Buffett sit on?

Quoted Text
Mr. Buffett is a Member of the Board of Managers of Burlington Northern Santa Fe, LLC. He is the Chairman of Borsheim Jewelry Company, Inc. Mr. Buffett has been Director of MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company since March 2000 and of Berkshire Hathaway Inc since 1965. He serves as a Director of The Gillette Company. Mr. Buffett has been Director of Citigroup Global Markets Holdings, Inc., (formerly, Salomon Inc.) since 1987. He serves as a Trustee of Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Mr. Buffett is a Life Trustee of The Urban Institute and serves as a Trustee of Grinnell College. He served as a Director of The Washington Post Co., since May 9, 1996 to May 12, 2011 and also served as its Lead Director. Mr. Buffett served as a Director of The Coca-Cola Company from 1989 to April 2006. He is Member of The American Academy of Arts and Sciences.


Yes...Mr. Buffett is looking out for America's best interest...Buffett is the poster child for Corporatism.


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Box A Rox
August 22, 2011, 6:37pm Report to Moderator

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Cicero thinks that it's Good For America that Billionaires and Millionaires pay from 0 to 17% tax rate, while the average American pays closer to 30%.
Fair & Balanced  


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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August 22, 2011, 7:22pm Report to Moderator
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the perception of the percentage is what they play with our minds about.....clear your head.....you keep yours and I'll keep mine....

but dont make me feel bad about someone else having less than me....and dont make me feel bad because someone has more than me....

that's life....the problem is that Buffet and H&R block are going to have trouble for the next 5-10years because they cant decide what their
'virtual value' will be.....


TRADE WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN
BARTER WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN

it's the control they dont want us to tear down......class warfare is a red herring......

Warren Buffet can kiss my a$$.....if he wants me to have more then by all means drop it right into my account and make sure I dont have to pay
taxes on it.......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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CICERO
August 22, 2011, 7:26pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox
Cicero thinks that it's Good For America that Billionaires and Millionaires pay from 0 to 17% tax rate, while the average American pays closer to 30%.
Fair & Balanced  


I think you missed the point...The "tax the rich" is a non-argument.  Anything to divert America's attention from the real slave masters at the central bank.  The "rich" will even participate in class warfare against themselves in order to protect the central banking system for which the benefit GREATLY from.  Their personal income tax rate will just be a cost added into their operating budget to pass along to the consumers.

I actually watched O'Reilly for the first 10 minutes tonight...What I found amazing is, he had Ben Stein and some other economist on the panel, and he asked about Obama's handling the economy...I was SHOCKED to hear that both of them either considered him a "non-factor" or a "positive factor".  Stein was a guy who bashed Obama, he was actually complimentary.  To me that signaled that the government media complex is to start supporting Obama in fear of the Ron Paul message gaining real traction.  

The game isn't playing out like designed.  Paul ruins the left vs. right political discourse.  


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Box A Rox
August 22, 2011, 7:31pm Report to Moderator

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There seems to be some disconnect on this board between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

When the 'haves' are the average working man, who supports those on welfare... the 'have nots', the board is enraged that one welfare child might get one extra Ritz cracker.  They are OUTRAGED!

When the 'haves' are the 400 richest Americans, and the 'have nots' are us, the working man... this board suddenly wants to not only give the Richest Americans an extra Ritz cracker... but enough of OUR tax dollars so that they can buy the entire Ritz Cracker Company.

The Richest Americans are screwing the working taxpayer of this country...and for Conservatives... that's the way it ought to be.  Amazing!  


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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August 22, 2011, 7:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Box A Rox
There seems to be some disconnect on this board between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

When the 'haves' are the average working man, who supports those on welfare... the 'have nots', the board is enraged that one welfare child might get one extra Ritz cracker.  They are OUTRAGED!

When the 'haves' are the 400 richest Americans, and the 'have nots' are us, the working man... this board suddenly wants to not only give the Richest Americans an extra Ritz cracker... but enough of OUR tax dollars so that they can buy the entire Ritz Cracker Company.

The Richest Americans are screwing the working taxpayer of this country...and for Conservatives... that's the way it ought to be.  Amazing!  


I dont want to 'give' them anything.....either the 400 or others....I want to see the whites of your eyes, call you neighbor, have a
conversation and soul talk....I have a ritz cracker if you need it....

I dont think the general public gets the 'system'...tear the whole freakin' thing down....it berates us,,,tells us how pathetic we are...
tells us how we dont care enough...tells us we dont work enough.....etc etc......

I dont like being yolked to this system...do you? I dont have a problem with 'the 400', do you?....I have a problem with our pathetic
piss-ant leaders who have made this system....and these leaders aren't made in a vacuum......

ever watch horders......yeah, well I cant stand giving folks food stamps and WIC when they claim they are 'poor' yet have a $400
cell phone/artificial nails/gold earrings etc.....at the same time those that are 'rich'($250,000year according to the Pres) using
their 'benefits' because they paid into the system so they can keep their 'riches'.......

the scales are weighted because we allow them to be


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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CICERO
August 22, 2011, 8:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox

When the 'haves' are the 400 richest Americans, and the 'have nots' are us, the working man... this board suddenly wants to not only give the Richest Americans an extra Ritz cracker... but enough of OUR tax dollars so that they can buy the entire Ritz Cracker Company.


Do you actually believe the rich are going to deposit money into your bank account?  What do you think taxing the "rich" is going to do, make your life better?

These large companies have been the beneficiary of LARGE subsidies, beneficiaries of HUGE tax exemptions, beneficiaries of HUGE BAILOUTS from the taxpayers over the past 100 years, NOW... ALL OF SUDDEN... AFTER 100 YEARS, THE "RICH" HAVE HAD AN EPIPHANY AND NOW WANT TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR AMERICA AND WANT TO GET TAXED.  Please Box, this tax the rich scheme is the wildest argument since "to big to fail" in an effort to preserve the status quo central banking scheme.  The bankers have you arguing about taxes, while they are printing trillions of dollars and stuffing in banks around the world stealing the value from your federal reserve note.  And we wonder why our grocery bills are higher today than a year ago.  How's that happen if taxes didn't go up?  It's not because the rich didn't pay high enough taxes, it's because the central bankers are on the verge of collapsing our currency.    


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August 23, 2011, 6:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CICERO


Do you actually believe the rich are going to deposit money into your bank account?  What do you think taxing the "rich" is going to do, make your life better?

These large companies have been the beneficiary of LARGE subsidies, beneficiaries of HUGE tax exemptions, beneficiaries of HUGE BAILOUTS from the taxpayers over the past 100 years, NOW... ALL OF SUDDEN... AFTER 100 YEARS, THE "RICH" HAVE HAD AN EPIPHANY AND NOW WANT TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR AMERICA AND WANT TO GET TAXED.  Please Box, this tax the rich scheme is the wildest argument since "to big to fail" in an effort to preserve the status quo central banking scheme.  The bankers have you arguing about taxes, while they are printing trillions of dollars and stuffing in banks around the world stealing the value from your federal reserve note.  And we wonder why our grocery bills are higher today than a year ago.  How's that happen if taxes didn't go up?  It's not because the rich didn't pay high enough taxes, it's because the central bankers are on the verge of collapsing our currency.    


BINGO!!!!! virtual value....that's why if they said tomorrow we will trade in buttons and the 'value' of our buttons would be based
on corn...this conversation would take place about 40 years from now---AGAIN...only the nouns and pronouns would be changed...
where do we think the buttons would be?


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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August 25, 2011, 9:09am Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Your Portfolio of Lies
by Gary North

Recently by Gary North: Roubini, Marx, and Keynes



  
    
Years ago, I bought a domain name: http://www.NeverSayRetire.com.


I did this because I have long been aware of a crisis that will face tens of millions of Americans. They will not be able to afford to retire.

Every Western government has lied to its citizens, All have promised to provide an old age safety net. These promises will soon be broken.

Americans have long accepted these promises at face value. They have not applied a discount for the high risk of a government default on its IOUs. They have also not applied a discount for price inflation to compensate them for a politically inevitable policy.

Yet they are becoming vaguely aware that the government will in some way wiggle out of its obligations. Anyway, they say they think this. But they take no practical steps to hedge their portfolio of lies.

This is why I conclude that there is enormous self-deception in all adult age groups in the United States regarding the prospects of retirement. This self-deception is so comprehensive and so widespread that I have doubts about people's ability to make assessments and then make decisions that are consistent with their assessments.

The financial media are beginning to publish articles about how millions of Americans will not be able to afford to retire. Americans have not saved enough money, we are told. This is accurate.

These articles are coming about 45 years too late. It was clear to anyone with an understanding of basic economics back in 1965 that Medicare would bankrupt the United States government at some point. A few critics said so at the time, but they were not taken seriously. The program's expenses have grown relentlessly. They are going to undermine the solvency of the government. This means that there will be a default at some point. This default will also undermine Social Security.


The writers also report that more Americans than ever before are saying that they will not be able to retire. But the actual rate of retirement indicates that they do not really believe this.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS

The people being interviewed are telling the reporters one story, but their actions tell a different story. They say that they will not be able to afford to retire, yet the overwhelming majority of people who are eligible to start collecting full Social Security payments at age 66 do retire. This percentage has been increasing over the last decade, but not fast enough. A Congressional Research Service report dated September 2009 summarizes the development. Only a third of men eligible for full Social Security benefits around age 66 are still in the labor force.


In March 2009, 52% of men aged 62 to 64 were employed, compared with 42% in 1990 and 47% in 2000. Of men aged 65 to 69, 33% were employed in March 2009, compared with 26% in 1990 and 30% in 2000. Among women 62 to 64 years old, 41% were working in March 2009, compared with 28% in 1990 and 35% in 2000. Among women 65 to 69 years old, 25% were working in March 2009, compared with 17% in 1990 and 20% in 2000.
What the data reveal is that two-thirds of American men who reach the age of full Social Security payments quit working. Three-quarters of women make this decision.

If Americans were really concerned about their inability to pay for their retirement years, they would not retire. They would stay on the job. By law, they cannot be fired merely for being older. Companies are afraid to fire anyone who reaches retirement age who asks to stay on the job.

My conclusion: there is a deep-seated schizophrenia in America's older population.

This schizophrenia extends to the younger members of society. For over a decade, pollsters have asked voters if they believe that Social Security will be still be operational when they reach retirement. Over half of all people surveyed say they do not think it will be. Younger workers are even more emphatic that it will not be there.

Yet there are no signs that this age group is saving enough money to provide retirement. They say that the government will not be there with a safety-net program, but they refuse to build a safety net of their own.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the public's ability to assess economic cause and effect. If we believe their actions, they discount the bad statistical news and take at face value the government's lies.

BROKEN RETIREMENT DREAMS

The Wall Street Journal published an article on August 21 that dealt with retirement prospects.

The article began with the story of a woman who got trapped by events. Her mother became ill the 1990s. She needed long-term medical care. This is not cheap. So, the daughter stopped making contributions to her retirement account. Then the "ups and downs" of the stock market dealt her retirement account another blow, the author writes. She calls them ups and downs. This is misleading. The stock market is lower today than in March 2000, and consumer prices are 30% higher.

Today, the 67-year-old woman went back to work part-time as a data-entry clerk. She hopes to retire by age 70.

It's a sad story. But something is left out: numbers. Exactly how much money did the woman have to pay each month for her mother's care? For how long? How much had she been contributing to her retirement account before her mother got sick? In other words, is there evidence that she, in fact, would have been able to afford to retire, had her mother not gotten sick? We are not told. We only know that this is her explanation of what happened.

As for the stock market, the financial media did not warn people in the spring of 2000 that a decade-long decline was coming. They did not tell readers to sell stocks. Since then, they have repeatedly said that the best way to achieve a secure retirement is to save more money. They have also said that the best place for this money is the U.S. stock market. They have been wrong for over 11 years.


The woman says she will have a hard time retiring if she cannot sell her home. This indicates that she had regarded her home as her capital for retirement. She is not alone. She knows this. "Like most older people, my money is in my home. ... I'm caught between a rock and a hard place."

But why is she caught? Because she believed the U.S. government and the mainstream media. We now live in the aftermath of Alan Greenspan's anti-recession policies, beginning days after he took over as chairman in October 1987. The stock market fell 22% in one day. The Federal Reserve responded within 24 hours by flooding the markets with fiat money.

Greenspan always inflated his way out of short-term downturns. This created the housing bubble that he denied even existed. He got away with this because the mainstream media applauded.

The financial media did not warn readers in 2005 and 2006 that residential real estate was a bubble, and that home owners should not put any hope in their homes' equity as a retirement savings plan. I warned my readers.

So did a lot of other Austrian School analysts.

But we were ignored. Among the few financial media talking heads who did not ignore us, we were dismissed as naysayers, doomsters, and people without vision. Those who ignored us are now living in less expensive homes. Millions of them owe more on their mortgages that their homes are worth.

The bubble-blowers of course mention none of this. They insist that no one could have foreseen the popping of the housing bubble. Their victims are in despair, for good reason.

Another of the lady's complaints is on target. "Everything is more expensive. I cannot retire, I wish I could." But this price inflation began in the mid-1960s, when she was a young woman. It did not slow until about two years ago. How is it that she did not see this coming? For the same reason that the financial media did not see it coming. They did not understand Austrian School economics.


Ludwig von Mises warned about secular price inflation from 1912 until his death in 1973. His disciples followed his lead. He took a stand against the entire academic community and the entire financial journalism guild. He was right. They were wrong.

A generation ago, he was asked if he had an inflation hedge. "Yes," he said. "Age."

The lady in the article did not see this coming. Neither did the mainstream media, the world of academic economists, and politicians. It is a sad tale, but it was predictable. We Austrians predicted it . . . and were told that we did not understand economics.

The article continues: "Many older people are finding themselves in a position they never expected to be in at retirement age: still working or in need of a job." This is true. But whose fault is it? The voters. Their parents voted for politicians who voted for the welfare state. They imitated their parents. Now the bills are coming due, as they do in every ponzi scheme. Yet the victims seem surprised. This is a self-inflicted wound.

The article covers recent developments: the fall in stock market prices over the last 30 days, the decline of interest rates since 2008, and falling housing prices. All of this is true, and it is going to get much worse.

Then she cites a statistic. Three-fifths of workers surveyed by a nonprofit organization devoted to retirement studies said that they plan on working past age 65. Of these people, 47% said this is because they have no financial option. They will need health care benefits and income.

If people really took seriously this threat to their futures, they would be saving at 10% per annum, minimum. The older ones would be saving at 20%. They aren't saving at 6%. They show no sign of panic regarding old age. They may sing songs of woe to reporters. They may tell pollsters that they see what is coming. There is not much evidence that they are taking statistically relevant steps to avoid the grim future which they say they envision.

SAVE MORE AND WORK LONGER


Whenever we read these stories on the plight of the retirees, the author adds the obligatory warning about failing to act now and save more. This article is no exception.


But in this tight labor market, working into your golden years isn't easy. And you'll have to make your age and years on the job come across as assets, not liabilities. In addition, with the current market upheaval, you'll need a financial plan that puts your savings on the fast track and takes into account how Social Security and Medicare benefits could be affected.

But the author does go beyond this ritual response about saving more money. She admits the truth: the best plan is to plan not to retire.


For many older workers, the easiest option may be to continue with their current employer. But that will entail making themselves essential.

Workers should take on new projects when possible. And it's crucial to stay on top of the latest technology being used; you don't want to be perceived as the old guy who doesn't know what's going on.


This is very good advice. The fact is this: there is no way that most Americans will be able to save enough money to accumulate enough capital to sustain them in their old age, from age 66 to 80 for men and 84 for women. They will not have sufficient capital. This assumes that there will be no mass inflation. That is a low-probability assumption.


Older employees also can put their experience to use – and on display – by volunteering to mentor younger workers either formally or informally.

This is also very good advice. The older worker who can get younger workers up to speed rapidly is a real asset to any company.

If you are working on commission, you are in good shape if you can keep selling. The article interviewed a shoe salesman who is still on the job at age 70. He stated emphatically: "I have to produce or the company wouldn't let me work out here." He's wrong. The company would let him work, but he would eventually starve. The company would not risk a lawsuit over age discrimination. It would let the pressure of falling commission income push him into retirement.


THE ILLUSION OF A SAFETY NET

The governments of all Western nations have promised workers that they will be taken care of by the state in their old age. That promise cannot be fulfilled. Statistically, it is impossible to fulfill. This is why families should be making plans to resume the responsibility of caring for the aged members, as societies have done throughout history.

For as long as you are still in the labor force, you have a chance of being able to afford to care for aged parents. If you are trying to avoid becoming the aged parent who needs care, think through your present employment situation.

If you are in a job where you think the physical requirements will be too much for you, try to get transferred now. Don't wait for your boss to come to you to suggest this. You had better gain skills in the new position. This takes years.

Some firms offer phased-retirement programs: reduced hours worked. I recommend this strategy, with this proviso: you have a side business to retire into. You plan ahead. You devote more hours to it each week as you get older. You get it profitable, and then you phase out of your present salaried position.

Employers like this option. It allows them to get rid of dying wood without facing a lawsuit. They don't want oldsters on the payroll. They want younger people who have more years of service ahead of them. Another major incentive for hiring youngsters is this: they will be less likely to negotiate from expectations of high income. They have been battered by Bernanke's economy. They are happy just to get a job.

CONCLUSION

You are sitting on a portfolio of government lies. I don't know if you really understand that there is going to be a great default by the government. By "really understand," I mean this: you are taking steps not to retire.

If you are still planning to retire, you had better have a lot of money, and this money had better not be invested in markets that are going to collapse when the government's promises are finally exposed as lies.


like I said....Mr. Warren Buffet can kiss my A$$


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Box A Rox
September 29, 2011, 4:14pm Report to Moderator

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Hip Hop Mogul Russell Simmons:
“All my employees — every single one — paid more taxes than I did. We need to make the rich pay their fair share.”



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
September 29, 2011, 5:38pm Report to Moderator

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Do the 'rich' have to pay their fair share OR do politicians need to stop giving BILLIONS to failing businesses?   Why would a President that demagogues the 'rich' give BILLIONS to corporations?  OHHHHHHH....Corporate welfare is only bad when it's politically convenient to attack your political opponent.

Yeah...Rich people coming out wanting to pay higher taxes, this is hilarious!!  Do these people have ANY dignity and self respect?  How about they charge less for their products???  Then EVERYBODY can afford their products.  If Russell Simmons is complaining about his $100 million paycheck, he can sell his products for 50% less.  Warren Buffett can lower the prices he charges on all his Bershire Hathaway holdings. How about ole Warren lower his GEICO car insurance rates.  That will put more money in peoples pockets, maybe even make it so those poor people he pretends to care about can afford to drive a car and pay for the insurance.  How about he lower his prices on Benjamin Paints, maybe that can kickstart the construction sector.

Instead, they are letting themselves be used as totalitarian pawns to help the masters convince people the government needs more of our money to do with it as they see fit.  

Quoted Text
The FBI is investigating Solyndra LLC for possible accounting fraud and the accuracy of financial representations made to the government, according to an agency official.
The FBI is examining possible misrepresentations in financial statements, according to the FBI official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing.
Solyndra, which made cylindrical-shaped solar panels, filed for bankruptcy protection on Sept. 6 and fired about 1,100 workers with little notice, about two years after winning a $535 million U.S. loan guarantee from the Energy Department.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....ccounting-fraud.html


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September 30, 2011, 5:16pm Report to Moderator
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this is so they have a clear conscience.....of which they should anyhow....if you feel guilty about what you have achieved then you dont deserve it.....this is where the government becomes the task master regardless of the 'lesser taxes'...

they 'beat' the 'rich plebs' conscience but never tell them the truth and even if they did the 'rich' would still forget what is in the mirror...just because one is 'rich' doesn't make them brilliant by any means....they ARE still just cogs in
the same machine....

the current issue facing the 'rich' is that the money system is changing and they must find their 'virtual value'....the rating companies blew up everyone's skirt and the system is fractured....this is where the 'rich dogs' make friends with
the 'poor dogs' for fear of not being able to tolerate their notch removal...


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Box A Rox
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Only the Republicans can picture a world where the richest people pay less taxes than the middle class people who actually work for a living... and not see the injustice.
If that is their value system, I pity them.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Quoted from Box A Rox
Only the Republicans can picture a world where the richest people pay less taxes than the middle class people who actually work for a living... and not see the injustice.
If that is their value system, I pity them.


the injustice is generational.....these folks dont come from a vaccum....I'm ALLLLLLLLL FOR A FLAT TAX.....and companies shouldn't have a 'personhood' label.....

I dont care if a person is 'rich'....I just want to keep what I have worked for....and there isn't a humanbeing that will make 'fair'........

we can erase the 'rich' with barter


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Millionaires for Higher Taxes

Yet again, another group of millionaires want their taxes raised for the good of the entire country.
The millionaires want Congress to allow the tax cuts passed during the George W. Bush administration to expire. Some want higher taxes generally.

The group realizes that the Tax Cuts for the Rich are being paid for by Middle Class America.


CNN Money
http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/16/news/economy/tax_millionaires/index.htm?iid=HP_River



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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