I think Box believe Libertarianism is Anarchy which it isn't, the government has a role to play but it is very limited. When government overreaches itself you get what you have today, less freedoms, a society enslaved by debt, and a society who feels entitled to the fruits of another's labor.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Some feel it's OK to TAKE, and TAKE and TAKE, but they have no debt for all they've TAKEN.
You're right about that.. like the people who cheat and get welfare benefits, unemployment insurance, medicare fraud, etc. There are generations of welfare families in this country. 46 years of the great society hasn't made the society great, not by a long shot. It's made the government huge, de-emphasized the importance of family and responsibility, where fathers can walk away from their children without consequence, and produced a bill we can no longer pay.
"Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock out the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it is victorious." - Author Unknown
Bumble, I TOOK my education, paid for by public tax dollars. I TOOK my security from the US Military, from police protection etc. I TOOK, use of roads, museums, buildings, state parks, bridges, communication systems, medical systems, on and on an on. I TOOK what was left here for me when I was born... I used it for my advantage to earn a living... and I OWE the future to give them, at least, what I was given for their future.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Yup, it's a difference. I OWE to those in the past that made it possible for me to be successful. I owe for those who built this country and left it for me to continue. I OWE, because I TOOK. Some feel it's OK to TAKE, and TAKE and TAKE, but they have no debt for all they've TAKEN.
So that's all well and good...How do you explain TAKING from ME to give to the present generation of welfare recipients? Whether it is corporate or social welfare, what do I OWE them for my success? Why must I pay for their medical bills, why must I pay for their housing, why must I pay for their food, why must I pay for a corporations business expansion, why must I bailout a banker? How have they contributed to my success? Why do I owe a government whose collective policies over the past 100 years have given my generation $14 Trillion Dollars of Debt? Please explain why and who I owe for the generations of debt that has been created to support the American welfare state. Please, tell me again.
I think Box believe Libertarianism is Anarchy which it isn't, the government has a role to play but it is very limited. When government overreaches itself you get what you have today, less freedoms, a society enslaved by debt, and a society who feels entitled to the fruits of another's labor.
Henry, Are you ENTITLED TO THE FRUITS OF ANOTHERS LABOR??? Are you entitled to the infrastructure left here for you by past generations??? You seem to skip this part, and I've made the point several times.
When you take from the past... you are part of that society that 'FEELS ENTITLED TO THE FRUITS OF ANOTHER'S LABOR."
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
So that's all well and good...How do you explain TAKING from ME to give to the present generation of welfare recipients? Whether it is corporate or social welfare, what do I OWE them for my success? Why must I pay for their medical bills, why must I pay for their housing, why must I pay for their food, why must I pay for a corporations business expansion, why must I bailout a banker? How have they contributed to my success? Why do I owe a government whose collective policies over the past 100 years have given my generation $14 Trillion Dollars of Debt? Please explain why and who I owe for the generations of debt that has been created to support the American welfare state. Please, tell me again.
Cicero's post is a perfect example of my past post:
~ "Libertarians invented outrage over government waste, bureaucracy, injustice, etc. Nobody else thinks they are bad, knows they exist, or works to stop them."
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Arguably, previous generations were more individualistic than today generations.. Did they take from previous generations and not give to the future? Giving something to the future does not necessarily mean wealth transfer, it didn't mean that historically either.
"Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock out the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it is victorious." - Author Unknown
Henry, There is a recurring point that seems to be missed or ignored.
You say you Worked for your money... I believe you, but you didn't create it all on your own. You USED the system left here for you. Phones, hospitals, roads computers... You didn't invent these things or install them in your community... they were here when you got here. YOU TOOK ADVANTAGE OF WHAT WAS LEFT HERE FOR YOU to earn what you have.
I'm sorry but my money I did get on my own by providing a service that another person needed, they have money, I have a service, together we both consented to doing business together. The computer I'm on now I had money and they provided a product, we both consented to make the transaction. The hospital I was born in, my parents paid them to provide a service. Nothing is free in this world, nothing.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Henry, Are you ENTITLED TO THE FRUITS OF ANOTHERS LABOR??? Are you entitled to the infrastructure left here for you by past generations??? You seem to skip this part, and I've made the point several times.
When you take from the past... you are part of that society that 'FEELS ENTITLED TO THE FRUITS OF ANOTHER'S LABOR."
You keep on metioning infrastructure...Please look at the Federal Budget and tell me how much is entitlement spending, then get back to your, "we owe future generations" B.S. I don't think we're $14 Trillion dollars in debt because were are building roads and bridges. Obamacare - you ever hear of it? Not infrastructure, but rather socialized medicine and more government control of the economy and our lives.
Cicero's post is a perfect example of my past post:
~ "Libertarians invented outrage over government waste, bureaucracy, injustice, etc. Nobody else thinks they are bad, knows they exist, or works to stop them."
Huh? A perfect example? Your example makes NO SENSE!
Bumble, I TOOK my education, paid for by public tax dollars. I TOOK my security from the US Military, from police protection etc. I TOOK, use of roads, museums, buildings, state parks, bridges, communication systems, medical systems, on and on an on. I TOOK what was left here for me when I was born... I used it for my advantage to earn a living... and I OWE the future to give them, at least, what I was given for their future.
You took SH!T!!! If you are a self relying man who has paid his fair share of taxes.......YOU PAID FOR ALL OF IT!!! However.......if you are or were on the government teet.......then yes....YOU TOOK!!!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
You keep on metioning infrastructure...Please look at the Federal Budget and tell me how much is entitlement spending, then get back to your, "we owe future generations" B.S. I don't think we're $14 Trillion dollars in debt because were are building roads and bridges. Obamacare - you ever hear of it? Not infrastructure, but rather socialized medicine and more government control of the economy and our lives.
Obama care may add to the debt but it hasn't yet.
George Worst Bush is accountable for much of that debt. The Republican GOD Ronald Reagan took office with $1trillion in debt from all presidents from Washington to Carter... Reagan/Bush left office with $3 trillion in debt.
If you want to blame any one single president... well you know the answer to that as well as I do... GWBushy
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
I'm sorry but my money I did get on my own by providing a service that another person needed, they have money, I have a service, together we both consented to doing business together. The computer I'm on now I had money and they provided a product, we both consented to make the transaction. The hospital I was born in, my parents paid them to provide a service. Nothing is free in this world, nothing.
You'll make a good libertarian Henry... You ignore what doesn't fit your view and continue as if it never happened.
If you've ever been to a museum... no charge, just walk in, enjoy the museum and leave. If you've ever used a phone... that system was in place when you were born... you may pay for today's usage, but not for the entire system that was here when you were born. The technology that we are using now on our computers... Ive TAKEN from the past and used these things for pleasure and to make a living...
Are you saying you never TOOK ANYTHING??? You've paid for everything??? You OWE nothing to past generations? Everything you used to make a living you PAID FORE ENTIRELY? I don't think anyone fits that category. Just as we all TAKE from what was left for us, we all OWE for future generations.
I've made this point several times... Either you don't get it or I'm doing a bad job of explaining it... but either way, It's been done!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
You'll make a good libertarian Henry... You ignore what doesn't fit your view and continue as if it never happened.
If you've ever been to a museum... no charge, just walk in, enjoy the museum and leave. If you've ever used a phone... that system was in place when you were born... you may pay for today's usage, but not for the entire system that was here when you were born. The technology that we are using now on our computers... Ive TAKEN from the past and used these things for pleasure and to make a living...
Are you saying you never TOOK ANYTHING??? You've paid for everything??? You OWE nothing to past generations? Everything you used to make a living you PAID FORE ENTIRELY? I don't think anyone fits that category. Just as we all TAKE from what was left for us, we all OWE for future generations.
I've made this point several times... Either you don't get it or I'm doing a bad job of explaining it... but either way, It's been done!
What you are mentioning are basic municipal needs, and a few extras (museums) that all but the most orthodox libertarians agree are needed and necessary. The true debate is related to the social programs of the last 80 years, where in many cases, producers are being required to support non-producers...and in some cases support producers who are not in need of support. I haven't seen a single post of yours address that.
"Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock out the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it is victorious." - Author Unknown
So that's all well and good...How do you explain TAKING from ME to give to the present generation of welfare recipients? Whether it is corporate or social welfare, what do I OWE them for my success? Why must I pay for their medical bills, why must I pay for their housing, why must I pay for their food, why must I pay for a corporations business expansion, why must I bailout a banker? How have they contributed to my success? Why do I owe a government whose collective policies over the past 100 years have given my generation $14 Trillion Dollars of Debt? Please explain why and who I owe for the generations of debt that has been created to support the American welfare state. Please, tell me again.
Then the Lord said to Cicero, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know and I dont care. Am I my brother’s keeper? "
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