I'm saying the archaic Catholic Church just recently acknowledged that Galileo Galilei was correct, (that the Earth isn't the center of our solar system, as the Church contended; which took 300 years) ... so how long do you think it will take the Church to catch up with most Catholics who favor (and use)birth control.
How many abortions could be prevented if the Church promoted birth control instead of condemning it?
Now you're saying that the majority of women who choose an abortion are catholics? Are they white catholics too? And do you really think that most catholic women don't use birth control?
Don't get me wrong....I respect people's choice of religion, but I'm not a fan of the archaic catholic church.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Now you're saying that the majority of women who choose an abortion are catholics? Are they white catholics too? And do you really think that most catholic women don't use birth control?
Don't get me wrong....I respect people's choice of religion, but I'm not a fan of the archaic catholic church.
???????? Bumble, You come to the strangest conclusions!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
I'm saying the archaic Catholic Church just recently acknowledged that Galileo Galilei was correct, (that the Earth isn't the center of our solar system, as the Church contended; which took 300 years) ... so how long do you think it will take the Church to catch up with most Catholics who favor (and use)birth control.
How many abortions could be prevented if the Church promoted birth control instead of condemning it?
Actually, you are bit fuzzy on the Galileo issue. The Church has acknowledged for a few centuries that the earth was not the center of the universe. In fact, the Vatican City State had one of the first observatories built in the 19th century ... and it is still operating.
The Roman Catholic Church has been on the cutting edge of science and cultural advancements for 2,000 years. The Church established the first universities in Europe and preserved much of the literature from ancient Greece, ancient Rome and other cultures.
I would also recommend that you actually read Humae Vitae - the encyclical issued by Pope Paul VI that outlined the Church's position on human life and birth control. Until you read that document, you are pretty much shooting blanks when you talk about church teaching on the subject.
Finally, the Roman Catholic Church -- THE CHURCH -- condemns the sin but NOT the sinner.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
Actually, you are bit fuzzy on the Galileo issue. The Church has acknowledged for a few centuries that the earth was not the center of the universe. In fact, the Vatican City State had one of the first observatories built in the 19th century ... and it is still operating. The Roman Catholic Church has been on the cutting edge of science and cultural advancements for 2,000 years. The Church established the first universities in Europe and preserved much of the literature from ancient Greece, ancient Rome and other cultures. I would also recommend that you actually read Humae Vitae - the encyclical issued by Pope Paul VI that outlined the Church's position on human life and birth control. Until you read that document, you are pretty much shooting blanks when you talk about church teaching on the subject. Finally, the Roman Catholic Church -- THE CHURCH -- condemns the sin but NOT the sinner.
Really??? I'm a bit FUZZY on this issue??? Really? And The Church has been on the cutting edge of science??? (As long as that Science doesn't contradict Church teachings) I've read some about the subject, but to be brief the facts are:
In 1600, a Dominican Friar, Giordano Bruno, was burned at the stake for submitting that the Sun was at the center of the universe (after being fitted with a Heretics Fork to keep him from talking as he was being roasted) See Pic.
Galileo knew full well what torture meant, (change your story or die being convinced) so Galileo finally decided to live instead of being tortured to death and wrote: ~ ""I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galileo of Florence, aged seventy, arraigned personally before this tribunal and kneeling before you, most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, general Inquisitors against heretical depravity in the entire Christian dominion ... do swear that I have always believed, and do now believe, and with God's help will in the future believe all that is held and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas, after an injunction which had been lawfully intimated to me by this Holy Office that I must altogether abandon the false opinion that the Sun is the center of the world and is immovable, and that the Earth is not the center of the world"... Blah blah blah.
If Galileo withdrew his "SCIENCE" under threat of torture and death, was he forgiven by the "Pro Science" Catholic Church??? Of course he was forgiven, but it took a while to finish the investigation. The Church continued to fight Galileo's Science (heresy) until the mid 1800's and finally just let the matter drop, stifling any Science on the matter for a few hundred years. I wonder how many other scientists were "convinced" by the threat of torture, to bury Real Science and accept the Church's version.
Galileo recanted and "sided with the Church" (and lived) on 22nd day of June 1633. In 1980 Pope John Paul II ordered a new look at the evidence against Galileo, and in 1992 a commission under Cardinal Paul Poupard found Galileo Galilei had been "more perceptive" in his interpretation of the Bible than his prosecutors. (Great line huh? "More Perceptive"... You see the Pro-Science Catholic Church has a big "Infallibility" Problem... They are always right cause God says so!
The Pope formally pardoned Galileo on October 31, 1992 almost 360 years after his trial!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
It's too bad that torture kind of went out of style for a while with the Church. If the Pro Science Church still employed a few torture experts, that damn pesky "theory of evolution" might have never caught on and we'd still be learning the the 'Church Science' of "creation".
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The topic of the thread is about abortion -- so I will reiterate my pro-life stance ... not going to be distracted by off topic insults and comments from the "peanut gallery".
This comes as no surprise. I have only been reading these forums for a few weeks and posting for a few days. But I have started to get a sense of who the players are here. I will cast my lowly vote to a woman's choice. And do not dare to compare abortion to slavery again, please. There are no parallels.
Women have the ultimate birth control option. Say No, it is 100% full proof. Unless you are chosen to birth the Lord and Savior,
hence the ultimate responsibility.
Quoted Text
Definition of RESPONSIBILITY 1: the quality or state of being responsible: as a : moral, legal, or mental accountability b : reliability, trustworthiness 2: something for which one is responsible : burden
Quoted Text
Definition of UN- 1: do the opposite of : reverse (a specified action) : de- 1a, dis- 1a —in verbs formed from verbs 2a : deprive of : remove (a specified thing) from : remove —in verbs formed from nouns b : release from : free from —in verbs formed from nouns c : remove from : extract from : bring out of —in verbs formed from nouns d : cause to cease to be —in verbs formed from nouns 3: completely
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Really??? I'm a bit FUZZY on this issue??? Really? And The Church has been on the cutting edge of science??? (As long as that Science doesn't contradict Church teachings) I've read some about the subject, but to be brief the facts are:
In 1600, a Dominican Friar, Giordano Bruno, was burned at the stake for submitting that the Sun was at the center of the universe (after being fitted with a Heretics Fork to keep him from talking as he was being roasted) See Pic.
Galileo knew full well what torture meant, (change your story or die being convinced) so Galileo finally decided to live instead of being tortured to death and wrote: ~ ""I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galileo of Florence, aged seventy, arraigned personally before this tribunal and kneeling before you, most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, general Inquisitors against heretical depravity in the entire Christian dominion ... do swear that I have always believed, and do now believe, and with God's help will in the future believe all that is held and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas, after an injunction which had been lawfully intimated to me by this Holy Office that I must altogether abandon the false opinion that the Sun is the center of the world and is immovable, and that the Earth is not the center of the world"... Blah blah blah.
If Galileo withdrew his "SCIENCE" under threat of torture and death, was he forgiven by the "Pro Science" Catholic Church??? Of course he was forgiven, but it took a while to finish the investigation. The Church continued to fight Galileo's Science (heresy) until the mid 1800's and finally just let the matter drop, stifling any Science on the matter for a few hundred years. I wonder how many other scientists were "convinced" by the threat of torture, to bury Real Science and accept the Church's version.
Galileo recanted and "sided with the Church" (and lived) on 22nd day of June 1633. In 1980 Pope John Paul II ordered a new look at the evidence against Galileo, and in 1992 a commission under Cardinal Paul Poupard found Galileo Galilei had been "more perceptive" in his interpretation of the Bible than his prosecutors. (Great line huh? "More Perceptive"... You see the Pro-Science Catholic Church has a big "Infallibility" Problem... They are always right cause God says so!
The Pope formally pardoned Galileo on October 31, 1992 almost 360 years after his trial!
The Church accepted the Copernican Theory (sun was the center of the solar system) LONG before the Church pardoned Galileo.
And the Church has been at forefront of studying science -- a long list of church figures were scientists and made major breakthroughs in their day ---- Copernicus is a good example. The Vatican's sponsoring of one of the first Observatories in the modern era ... another example. There are many, many more.
Your comments about infallibility are way off the mark --- as the Church has NEVER held that it is infallible in matters of science. The Doctrine of Papal Infallibility was only agreed to in 1870 at the First Vatican Council and it says ONLY that the Pope is infallible when speaking on matters of morals and church doctrine. Even my statement is an oversimplification --- but the FACT remains that only 2 doctrinal statements have been specifically and publicly declared infallible by any pope.
So our overall comments just come across to me as more uniformed Catholic bashing .... It is sad that such anti- Catholic bigotry still exists in modern day America.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
Do you consider any criticism of the Catholic Church to be "uninformed Catholic Bashing"??? As a Catholic, I've joined many of my fellow Catholics criticizing the Church on issues of consequence... Gay Marriage Pedophile Priests Women Priests Divorce Birth Control etc
There are some Catholics who consider anyone who "questions", a heretic!
One more point... if the Church is so "Pro Science"... Why was poor Brother Giordano Bruno silenced with a fork in his chest and roasted until well done?
Maybe, a science experiment!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
MT would fit right in with those Catholic Torturers of the Inquisition. He decides if Cuomo should receive communion, then labels anyone who 'questions', a Cafeteria Catholic.
If you consider that MOST American Catholics practice birth control, I guess the majority ARE Cafeteria Catholics.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The Catholic Church has definitive teachings on these issues, and true Catholics (obedient to the Church) are expected to form their conscience against such teaching and to have faith in the Bishops united to the Pope. You cannot simply disobey Catholic teaching and then say “I was just following my conscience.”
St. Paul writes:
Quoted Text
Obey your leaders and submit to them: for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will give account (Hebrews 13:17).
Catechism of the Catholic Church: 2089 “Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. ‘Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.’”
Do you consider any criticism of the Catholic Church to be "uninformed Catholic Bashing"??? As a Catholic, I've joined many of my fellow Catholics criticizing the Church on issues of consequence... Gay Marriage Pedophile Priests Women Priests Divorce Birth Control etc
There are some Catholics who consider anyone who "questions", a heretic!
One more point... if the Church is so "Pro Science"... Why was poor Brother Giordano Bruno silenced with a fork in his chest and roasted until well done?
Maybe, a science experiment!
As you have stated -- Brother Bruno was executed as a heretic in the year 1600 -- so that does NOT in any way reflect the current views of the Church on the subject or the views of the Church for quite a long time on the subject.
I never called you a heretic -- I said that you are an anti-Catholic bigot -- and a rather uninformed one at that,
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
the church was at the forefront of studying science and it was also that adept at studying the psyche of man and the use of delusions/power/fear/guilt etc to such an effect as to keep the masses trembling and unwilling to believe a tactile truth that was in front of them, for centuries.....
sure they studied science but only at the $$ increase of those at the top who had political influence and were thereby able to keep the masses under authoritarian rule as they marched along life being 'good catholic christians'........
I am not against religion...but the loss of oneself to some one else's definition of what you are is wrong....self discovery is great and so is self discipline....but ALWAYS keep your mind, after all, it is a muscle.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Bottomline-- killing an unborn human baby in the womb is unnecessary and despicable. There is no rational justification for murdering the weakest among us. The "extreme left" will make up a lot of arguments for their "pro-murder of the holy innocents" ... but none of their arguments make any sense.
Like the one that says that a fetus is not a human --- a fetus inside a mother's womb has never turned out to become a carrot or a spleen or a sparrow .... every fetus that has come to term has become a human baby. That is something that can be scientifically proven. To say that it is not a human is not scientific at all ... just a bunch of poppycock.
Furthermore, the "it is not a human" argument has been used by the likes of Hitler - against the Jews ... by Slaveowners -- against blacks ... and on and on through history. If the "pro-abortion" folks want to be in the same company with the Third Reich and Slaveowners -- that is their business ... but it certainly proves that they have a twisted view of Human Rights and morality.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
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