It is apparent boxy, that american history has no place in your present world. No wonder this country is in the shape it is in today. I guess you are one of those 'selective american history' students, huh?
Just the opposite Bumble... I take history at it's word. I don't claim to know what Jefferson would BE or SAY today, like some on this board. Jefferson lived in a totally different political world than our present one. Jefferson would be contemplating 2011 problems with a 1700 frame of reference.
I know what Jefferson felt and wrote at the time, but that has nothing to do with today's politics.... and Certainly nothing to do with Ron Paul!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Today's Conservatives will tell you that America is a "Christian Nation" and quote the founding fathers to prove their point. Read Jefferson's view of "Christians':
I read most of his stuff and I think it proves what I wrote above. Yes many say we are a Christian nation but not only conservatives say that, many religious democrats will make the same argument. In the end though we are a free nation and that includes being able to practice whatever we want. If some wish to say we are a Christian Nation what's the problem with that, it doesn't make it true does it. Unless your rights are infringed upon it really makes no difference in the end.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Any conservative who takes their religion and presses it to political agendas and into law is wrong....this is America you get your religion, I get mine they get theirs etc etc.....anything more would become Taliban....
the 'character' of America IS that personal the law of America IS what makes America free
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
LMAO!!! That's so funny! Your reading 1700's Jefferson into 2011 politics... and assume you'd know Jefferson's opinion, and of course, Jefferson would agree with you!
OF course!
2011 politics and the principled interpretation of the Constitution are two different things. I believe Ron Paul has the Jeffersonian view of government and more specifically the role federal government and its LIMITED powers. Those principles remain constant regardless the political climate, whether it's 1791, 1891, 1991, 2001, or 2011.
I wasn't claiming to know Jefferson's opinion on 2011 politics; I was comparing Ron Paul and Thomas Jefferson as strict constitutionalists.
Jefferson was a complex man ... championed liberty but owned slaves ... questioned religion and Christianity yet as President ordered the Bible to be in every classroom in the District of Columbia and READ.
He advocated a weaker federal government with limits on presidential power --- yet in the Louisiana Purchase and other actions "stretched the Constitution" and increased the power of the federal government and the presidency.
As much as I admire Thomas Jefferson, I have a greater admiration for John Adams. Mainly because I believe that Adams is not given full credit for his role in the Declaration of Independence and the Revolution and in the early days of our nation. John Adams had a more - IMHO - integrity of character .. over all. More public officials should follow his example.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
it's sad when folks dont question their religion/beliefs....I think sometimes we may be afraid of what we find in them and ourselves......but, just to follow willy-nilly is BAD...VERY VERY VERY BAD......
questioning and poking and proding produces character and integrity.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
John Adams (1735-1826) Second President of the United States (1797-1801)
Adams on the view of a "Christian Nation":
~ The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? -- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815
~ Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind. -- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-8, from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"
~ As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed? -- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
Somehow when Conservatives quote our FOUNDING FATHERS, they always seem to leave out much of Adams, a founding father and president.
Adams would run like Forest Gump at the though of joining the present day TeaBaggers.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
If it wasn't for John Adams the Declaration of Independence would never have been approved by the Continental Congress. Most folks don't know that.
I recommend that everyone take day trip to Quincy, Mass and visit the Adams N.H.S. -- it celebrates two of the finest US Presidents and, of course, Abigail Adams, too.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
it's sad when folks dont question their religion/beliefs....I think sometimes we may be afraid of what we find in them and ourselves..... questioning and poking and proding produces character and integrity.....
Well said! We should ALL be questioning and turning over government rocks to find the truth. That is what keeps them all on their toes!
Instead of the government (big brother) watching every move we make......WE should be poking, prodding and looking under every rock they throw at us. We aren't to be complacent.....ever!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
In your opinion, would that video qualify as left wing hate speech? Would that be on Al Sharpton's list of banned speech? Is "teabagger" anti-populist rhetoric used as a call to action the left wing elite and to inflame the masses? I wouldn't ban it, but based on your posts on the Gifford thread, to be consistent, you would have to.
The word "TeaBagger" was the 2009 runner up for the New Oxford American Dictionary "word of the year". Read their definition... it's hardly hate speech:
teabagger - a person who protests President Obama's tax policies and stimulus package, often through local demonstrations known as "Tea Party" protests (in allusion to the Boston Tea Party of 1773
There are Conservatives that consider "Right Winger" to be hate speech (but for some reason calling a Democrat "Socialist" isn't) There are Conservatives that consider TeaBagger to be hate speech (but for some reason calling a "Democrat Fascist" isn't)
If the New American Oxford American Dictionary considers "TeaBagger" to be a commonly used word to mean nothing hateful... then screw those who call it hate speech. Right wingers vs The New Oxford American Dictionary.... I'll take the dictionary.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Yeah I'm sure the founders would have loved Bill Maher LMAO.
Tea Party= Personal responsibility Bill Maher= Limited responsibility (because the government can take care of us of course)
Tea Party= Lower taxes Bill Maher=Higher taxes and the belief of redistributing wealth for the reason I mentioned above
Tea Party= Smaller constitutional government Bill Maher= Unlimited big government
Tea Party= Conservatism Bill Maher= Liberalism
I'm pretty sure the founders would be in our side if alive today.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
In your opinion, would that video qualify as left wing hate speech? Is "teabagger" anti-populist rhetoric used as a call to action the left wing elite and to inflame the masses? I wouldn't ban it, but based on your posts on the Gifford thread, to be consistent, you would have to.
Tea Party Members at one time, referred to themselves as TeaBaggers, until they learned it also had a "SLANG" less desirable meaning, that most Americans had never heard of. When they used TEABAGGER was it Hate Speech then??? NO of course not.
If you asked most Americans today: What is a "TeaBagger", they'd respond, "a member of the TeaParty". The word is now "COMMON USAGE, as evidenced by Conservative Pudnant, Andrew Breitbart's video calling the TeaPartiers "TEABAGGERS". (See Breitbart's TeaBagger video "Since 1773" below)
The New Oxford American Dictionary, doesn't have another meaning listed for TeaBagger... just the one I posted. By their definition: teabagger -a person, who protests President Obama’s tax policies and stimulus package, often through local demonstrations known as “Tea Party” protests (in allusion to the Boston Tea Party of 1773)
TeaBagger is NOT hate speech. If you have another less savory meaning to the word... that's your problem. The rest of America doesn't recognize it that way.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Logged
, from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"
