George W. Bush's casual acknowledgment Wednesday that he had Khalid Sheikh Mohammed waterboarded -- and would do it again -- has horrified some former military and intelligence officials who argue that the former president doesn't seem to understand the gravity of what he is admitting.
Waterboarding, a form of controlled drowning, is "unequivocally torture", said retired Brigadier General David R. Irvine, a former strategic intelligence officer who taught prisoner of war interrogation and military law for 18 years.
Irvine said "Bush doesn't appreciate how much harm his countenancing of torture has done to his country".
" It puts American troops in greater danger -- and unnecessary danger."
James P. Cullen, a retired brigadier general in the United States Army Reserve Judge Advocate General's Corps, said that the net effect of Bush's remarks -- and former Vice President Cheney's before him -- is "to establish a precedent where it will be permissible to our enemies to use waterboarding on our servicemen in future wars.
"This is not the last war we're going to fight," Cullen said. "AMERICANS NOT YET BORN ARE GOING TO BE PRISONERS OF WAR IN THOSE CONFLICTS, AND OUR ENEMIES ARE GOING TO POINT TO PRESIDENT BUSH AND VP CHENEY, SAYING THAT WATERBOARDING IS OK".
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
You are kidding...right? I have relatives that were in WWII and believe me, waterboarding would have been a walk in the park back then in comparison.
And I suppose you would suggest having a friendly discussion over a beer with the same people who plot to kill you and your family and destroy America, huh? Perhaps we can exchange vital information with our enemies with a Walmart gift card.
paleeezzzzeeee!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Torture works against the American service man and works in favor of the enemy... especially in the middle east.
But the biggest reason not to use torture is that it's counterproductive. It doesn't work... it gives you unreliable information and is the single greatest recruiting tool that AlQaeda has at it's disposal.
I agree with John McCain, who knows a lot more about torture than I do... He is against it. So are most senior military leaders. This letter from General David Petraeus is and should be the American Military view of Torture.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
There's a big difference between water boarding and real torture where our enemies pull out teeth, break bones, pull out finger nails, and hang our soldiers from their thumbs. McCain was tortured and has the lasting physical disabilities to prove it but water boarding leaves no physical damage to the body. If water boarding saved one American Soldiers life it was well worth doing it. We should treat enemy soldiers the same way that they treat our soldiers and the radical Muslims burned, beheaded, and hung our soldiers from a bridge or did you kind of forget that.
And you don't think this (Petraeus) is just lip service just to tickle the ears of the bleeding heart liberal citizens? Come on, I thought you were smarter than that.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
The word is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE... Torture is not only ineffective... it's damaging to our mission.
If you want REVENGE, then go ahead and torture. If you want to complete the mission with the least US casualties and in the most efficient manner, then don't torture. Read the link, by General David Petraeus. In part: Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone “talk”; however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact our experience in applying the interrogation standards laid out in the Army Field Manual (2-22.3) on Human Intelligence Collector Operations that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.
We are, indeed, warriors. We train to kill our enemies. We are engaged in combat, we must pursue the enemy relentlessly, and we must be violent at times. What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight, however, is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect.
This isn't just the opinion of a few Generals, it's based on actual facts. The same information can and has been obtained by other methods. Torture is the macho, easy, & dumb way to look at the problem of producing accurate information... It gains almost nothing, and endangers US troops.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Torture is the macho, easy, & dumb way to look at the problem of producing accurate information... It gains almost nothing, and endangers US troops.
And the alternative is.....tea and crumpets?
It's all smoke and mirrors boxy. You believe it because you agree with it.....JUST LIKE FOX NEWS!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
If we promise to lay down our arms, put blanks in our guns, hand out flowers to the Taliban, set up free VD clinics in their neighborhoods (these sweet Islamists are known for their love of sheep, which is not a bad thing-please don't be judgemental) and just go home and dismantle all of our weaponry, I am sure they will all love us, and never dismember people, cut off heads with dull butterknives, hijack planes, plant bombs in their diapers, or make cell-phone activated roadside bombs again. all will be wonderful. And if you catch one (peacefully, without using force) of the terrorist involved in a plot, please ask NICELY for any information on what his plans are, because they will respect us more for being gentle and loving and kind. Never be grumpy. Be happy, don't worry.
And always be rest assured that no matter what- when they attack our troops wearing civilian clothes and fight under no flag or recognized military rank (that rotten FDR would have hanged them causing great atrocities against our troops in WW II) and capture one- they will always make sure there is a turn-down mint under his pillow, he has fresh fruit and room service, and will never lay a hand on him- all because we agreed to fight with both hands tied behind our backs like the good and decent liberals want us to.
"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
One point... It is America that is the aggressor in their country, Iraq. They didn't invade the USA... we invaded Iraq... the largest most powerful superpower in the world invaded Iraq, a third rate military and under mostly false pretenses. If I were an Iraqi and some country... any country, invaded my land, I'd grab a gun and fight... Wouldn't you?
If you woke up this morning right here in Rotterdam, to "shock and awe" blowing up most of your country what would you do??? Would you fight them? Run away??? Side with the enemy???
If some president in some other country wanted our OIL or other resources and invaded the USA, would you resist with every means possible? I would!
When you did resist and fought back to protect your country... the invaders would find a name for you... It would be: Christian American Radicals or Christian Fanatics or You get the picture... One thing that IS clear, is that Iraq had nothing to do with the Sept 11 attacks... so that argument is false. There were no WMD's... no mobile chemical weapons labs... etc
If you were an Iraqi... what would you do? I'd fight the aggressor forever... wouldn't you?
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Oh kumbayahh!!!!!!!! lalalalalaaaaa be happy. Its all a dream....
"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
When you did resist and fought back to protect your country... the invaders would find a name for you... It would be: Christian American Radicals or Christian Fanatics
Isn't that what the liberals & socialists including Obama, those in his administration and the Democrat "leaders" in Congress, consider us? Does gun toting and bible thumping equate to "Christian American Radicals"?
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