Quoted from bumblethru

I understand that sewers won't remedy the drainage problem 100%. But voting down public sewers...I have mixed feelings about that.  With a high water table and septics, I would be concerned about a possible sanitation issue in the future. I also believe that the home value would increase with public sewers.

I see this as a mutual feeling in many neighborhoods throughout Rotterdam. Everyone seems to want sewers, but no one seems to want to pay for them. I think that sewers and resolving the drainage issue in Masullo Estates should be two entirely separate issues. One separate from the other.

I know that there are quite a few homes all over Rotterdam who have sump pumps in their basement. I do! And it runs 24/7. And I don't live anywhere near Masullo's.

Sewers will remedy the drainage problem 0%.  Sewers and groundwater are apples and oranges.

Home values do typically increase with sewers.  That increase will be offset by the adverse perception of grinder pumps.  They are a nightmare.

No one in Masullo Estates desired sewers, so it's a less about paying for them.  Our drainage relief is being held hostage now and will be even more so when we're dependent on Helderberg Meadows construction schedule.  Here's an interesting point to ponder:  What if the HM project is delayed because of the softer real estate market?  When do we get functional sewers then?

I'm all for voting on sewers.  Heck, I could live with almost any cost associated but the engineering we're dealing with over there isn't normal.  Underwater sewer lines, and by that I mean submerged by water all the time, are extremely problematic.  I didn't dare go there in my comments last night.  

This sewer proposal just plain stinks...and it's not all about cost necessarily.  An interesting comment was made by the engineer last night that those large parcels of land were intentionally excluded from this proposal.  Why is that?  I already know the answer.  I purposely tiptoed around it last night.  I think I'll continue to reserve further comment on that aspect.

At some point, we are all (the whole town) likely to be mandated to go on sewers and it will cost us more to do so.  We'll bear that burden.  We want the drainage relief we were promised.  We want the new roads we've been denied and are entitled to.  That has always been our focus.  Sewers are the Town Board's focus and more specifically, the developer's interest.

I'll also leave the discussion about the treatment facility capacity alone for now but that is a conversation long avoided by the Town that will eventually bite us all in the *ss.

I desperately tried to convince myself there was a good angle to this proposal even with the negatives.  In the end, it couldn't be done.

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This sewer proposal just plain stinks...and it's not all about cost necessarily.  An interesting comment was made by the engineer last night that those large parcels of land were intentionally excluded from this proposal.  Why is that?  I already know the answer.  I purposely tiptoed around it last night.  I think I'll continue to reserve further comment on that aspect.

Green space for a park......the freakin' town park?

I am new to this topic but other then sewers, what other possiblities are their to fix this age old problem. Sewers will not fix ground waters problems. So what other plans do residents or the town have in mind? Please help me understand this mess a little better!

Quoted from senders

Green space for a park......the freakin' town park?

No, that's completely a whole different chunk of land.  No bearing whatsoever.

Quoted from scsd0287

I am new to this topic but other then sewers, what other possiblities are their to fix this age old problem. Sewers will not fix ground waters problems. So what other plans do residents or the town have in mind? Please help me understand this mess a little better!

Gosh, I couldn't possibly explain the history of it all again...way too complicated and boring.  I'll try to sum it up but understand it will probably prompt even more questions...there will be a lot unsaid.

Since 2004, residents in Masullo Estates have sought a solution to the groundwater problems plaguing the neighborhood.  These problems date to the creation of the neighborhood but have worsened over time with additional nearby development.  Between 2004 and now, we've been successful in doing enough engineering to come up with drainage (stormwater drains, etc) and road reconstruction plans that the Town was ready to implement.  Because the road will be ripped up it made sense to consider installing a sanitary sewer line at the same time to lessen costs. (ie: it won't ever get any cheaper).

The Helderberg Meadows project will require a sewer line and that is what we would tie in to.  But HM isn't built yet. We're tired of being delayed and the specifics of this proposal just don't square well.

Last night we learned that sewers or not, we've somehow missed another season to do the drainage work.  That was never part of the agreement when we agreed to consider sewers.

Michael is right about the sewers not doing very much to reduce the drainage problem. The most effective way to help the residents of Masullo Estates is there has to be a good storm drainage system to get the water out of the development b4 it has a chance to become ground water. Second is the need to fix the storm water drainage system from Netherlands Village that's dumping it's storm water into Masullo Estates every time it rains because the system is not working at all. After the drainage is in place the roads can be repaired/replaced as needed. Unfortunately with this sanitary sewer debate the storm water drainage system will be put off until next year.

Shadow is absolutely right about Netherlands.  In fact, there are several known contributing factors to the rpoblems in Masullo Estates that could and should've already been addressed.  They are independent of whether sewers get installed as they're not affected by ripping up any roads, the Netherlands stilling pond is probably the best example of that fact.

Yet NO action is accomplished season after season.  And what about the $40,000 additional monies that were paid to evaluate possible drainage paths through some of that land I've mentioned.  That land acquisition was a "done deal," remember?  I havn't heard a peep on the status since which leads me to suspect it is contingent on sewer approval which in turn opens up the rest of that land for development on our nickel.

We've spent an awful lot of money on studies.  EVERY town resident ought to be concerned on the return that money ISN'T getting.  It's time we accomplished what we set out to do, what's possible to do, what was promised would be done.

I'm done ranting.  I think I'll return to my blog where I tend to be much less emotional.  By next week, I'll try to formulate a well-rounded history of the issue as I know it and post it there for scsd0287 and others to read.

http://www.dailygazette.com

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The cartoon is a pretty accurate description of what Masullo Estates would look like if this had been a very wet spring.

I still may not be understanding this correctly. Even though I know that new sewers and the drainage issue are two entirely different issues, why not go for the sewers?  And again, I know that it will NOT handle the drainage problem.

I think the issue of having to put grinder pumps in about 20 of the homes front yard with a cost of between $3,000 to 10,000 per unit depending on what quality pump they chose was a big stumbling point. Also even if the residents elected to get the dry sewers installed they might not be connected for years. Residents would also have to pay $400 a year for 15 years to pay off the bond as well as paying a plumber to hook up to the sewer line at a cost of about $4,000 or more depending on whether or not they needed a pump in their basement to push the sewage out of the basement if there wasn't enough grade due to the depth of the pipe in the street. After they hook ed up the fee per year would go up to $610 due to maintenance fees. It's an expensive project when all is said and done.  

I understand the cost would be high. But wouldn't it be cheaper to do it now than later since the costs of EVERYTHING keep rising almost daily?

It does seem like a lot of tax money has been spent on several studies over the years. Yet the town gets the same answer year after year from different studies. It just costs more year after year for these studies that have gotten no where. This issue has no bearing on my life or where I live but it does seem to cost me money every year. Good luck to all.

One of the reasons for the delay on starting the road/drainage project this year may be the fact that the money that was set aside for this project has been spent. Before the town can start the project it will have to raise the cash thru possibly a bond which may be a reason that the town isn't going to totally replace the roads as was originally proposed. Now the plan is to replace the worst sections of the roads and skim coat the rest of them. As Michael has pointed out the town has reams of paper on the studies done on the Masullo Estates water issue so there should be no delay if in fact there was money to fund the project.