Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Same Sex Marriage now legal nationwide
Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community    ....And In The Rest Of The Country  ›  Same Sex Marriage now legal nationwide Moderators: Admin
Users Browsing Forum
Googlebot and 27 Guests

Same Sex Marriage now legal nationwide  This thread currently has 16,989 views. |
17 Pages « ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 » Recommend Thread
senders
September 11, 2015, 9:20am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Quoted Text
Conservativism, Inc. and the Ideological Follies of My Youth
PAUL GOTTFRIED • SEPTEMBER 9, 2015 • 1,500 WORDS • 22 COMMENTS • 3 NEW • REPLY
digitalreflections / Shutterstock.com
digitalreflections / Shutterstock.com
One of the first essays I ever published was in the left-leaning Canadian Forum, to which I contributed a dissenting article, from the right, in 1968. Those were the days when the Left was far more tolerant than it is at the present time, and also far more tolerant than are the Stalinists and Trotskyites who run Conservatism, Inc. Unfortunately I can’t say much for the essay that I wrote as a young assistant professor at Case Western Reserve, which was full of sound and fury but signifying about as much as the latest NR editorial In fact there wasn’t much difference between what I said in 1968 and what a minicon today, looking back at the 1960s, would likely be saying. I berated the hippies and the “Counter-culture” for being unwilling to recognize the mortal struggle we were engaged in against the bad guys. Combatting the communist beast, I thought, was all-important, and the malodorous hippies who were high on a psychedelic life style, were AWOL in our war for civilization. What I didn’t mention was that I was then a fervent Republican and had just made a donation to the presidential campaign of Richard Nixon. My views in 1968 were reducible to the facile formula: “Hippies are bad; Republicans are good.”

Boy, was I deluded as well as insufferably pompous back then! The hippies were epiphenomenal in terms of what the Left has since become, while the Republican Party seems an insurmountable barrier to any attempt to stop the further progress of the Cultural Marxist epidemic that has grabbed hold of the Western world. The most critical political development of the 1960s, as I argue in After Liberalism, was the explosion of the managerial state in the Western “liberal democracies,” together with the state’s increasing involvement in “social policy.” The flower children had nothing to do with this tendency, although those who later promoted the new politics, like Hillary Clinton, are delighted to pull out old pics of themselves looking like flower-power kids. There were intelligent thinkers in 1968 who did point out the big picture. But since, like my later friends Christopher Lasch and Murray Rothbard, these critics were deemed as weak in fighting the Soviet challenge, they were not regarded in official movement circles as “conservative.” Back then I imagined that arch-conservative political thinker George F. Kennan, who was blistering in his attacks on Western decadence, was a raving leftist. After all, William F. Buckley said so and to prove the case, Kennan was in favor of making agreements with communist countries.

Mind you, I’m not saying the Soviets were not an international danger or that the Right was not justified in calling for resistance against aggressive communist dictatorships. Not everything the Right argued for or against during the 1960s, particularly on the domestic front, was wrong, and in retrospect, I would prefer the Right we had in 1960 to the grotesque caricature of the one we’re stuck with now.

But the onetime preoccupation of the American Right with what its critics described as “apocalyptic anti-Communism” has had unhappy consequences. Among them are saber-rattling and a fixation on foreign enemies that have to be invaded before they overrun the “homeland.” These obsessions have found lasting form in what is now imagined to be conservatism. In most meaningful respects the conservative movement has moved far, far from where it used to be. Today it shamelessly fronts for the GOP and the Israeli Right (sometimes so abjectly that it may embarrass Israeli politicians); at the national level it goes along with increased immigration from the Third World and various plans to “normalize” (read amnesty) illegal residents, and most conservative publicists whom I encounter either acquiesce in or jubilantly affirm the sanctity of gay marriage. But for our self-described patriots and vicarious front-line warriors, these developments are not worth our mental energy. We should be standing up for “American exceptionalism” and against all those who would resist our expanding conception of “human rights.”

Although on every social issue the current conservative establishment is light years to the left of the founders of National Review, on at least crucial two points, past and present merge. Today’s conservatives no less than the militant Cold Warriors of an earlier epoch seek to “roll back” the foreign enemy. What James Burnham once said about America’s fate in the Cold War, has now been extended to all foes of “American democracy.” We are “in a struggle for the world,” with changing Axes of Evil and see it dramatized every day and night on Fox News. Although admittedly a world power like ours faces real enemies, one has to wonder why enemies requiring military preparedness and possibly military intervention keep popping up every night on “conservative” TV and in the Republican press. This issue overshadows all other concerns, exactly as the Communist menace did for the older conservative movement, even after the Commies had ceased to be an international threat.

The other point on which conservatism then and now would agree is that the main, perhaps overshadowing domestic threat is creeping “socialism.” The worst insult that the “conservative” press hurls against Obama, when he is not attacked as an adversary of American military strength, is that he is really a “socialist” and a “Marxist” at heart. Fortunately, we are told, there is an alternative. Apparently, whenever the GOP captures the presidency, the socialist threat recedes, although the same massive welfare state that the Democrats preserve and expand remains in place. Still, we are assured, there is a difference: When the Republicans manage public administration and collect taxes, they claim (counterfactually) to be “getting government off our backs.” Again I am willing to concede that Republican administrations tweak the taxes a bit better to favor certain business interests and don’t unleash the EPA as often on landowners in rural areas. But they certainly don’t change the structure of the administrative state and whatever distinguishes them from the other side, is a difference of degree rather than a large difference of kind.

Even more upsetting is the persistent use of the word “socialist” to divert us from the real threats of overreaching government. Why doesn’t the relentless advance of anti-discrimination laws and government-enforced sensitivity training matter to so-called conservatives as much as does the specter of full-blown socialism? Significantly, Western countries, led by the Labour government of Tony Blair in England in the 1990s, have generally been moving in the direction of denationalizing industries. Economic socialism as it existed in the past has become less, not more, visible, if by this term we mean direct government ownership of productive forces. But at the same time public administration is taking away our economic and other freedoms, without being technically “socialist.” For example, government is steadily tightening control over our behavior, in the name of fighting prejudice. When the Left went after the Confederate Battle Flag and began attacking other symbols and place names associated with Confederate heroes, the protest from Conservatism, Inc. was deafening silence. After all, the Left, we were made to believe, is fighting bigots, even if that means stripping entire regions of the country of the outward signs of their heritage. The Left, for Conservatism, Inc., only becomes a threat when it skimps on military weapons and avoids military confrontations. The Left becomes an even larger threat when it doesn’t favor GOP donors. Then we’re truly playing with “socialism.”

I most definitely am not a friend of a state-controlled economy and, in fact, would like to see our increasingly centralized managerial government and meddlesome courts get out of our lives as much as humanly possible. But this is not likely to happen, given our leftward-trending electorate and disastrous immigration policies, and given our even more radicalized media and educational establishment. But what makes the desired outcome even less possible are the obvious priorities of Conservatism, Inc. Some of its emphases are of relatively recent origin, but others reveal a dangerous continuity with the obsessions of a less leftist conservative movement that arose after the Second World War. Today the conservative movement offers the worst of both past and present. It is unwilling to confront the Left’s social agenda, and usually submissively accepts it, but to make matters worse, it outdoes an older, more conservative Right by screaming incessantly for military intervention and larger military budgets. Finally, it diverts attention from efforts to limit the scope of runaway government by making it appear that the solution to the problem is voting for the Republican Party. I am still waiting to see how such an action could reverse the march now underway into a grimly leftist future.


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 210 - 248
CICERO
September 11, 2015, 10:50am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
18,232
Reputation
68.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -8
Time Online
702 days 15 hours 7 minutes
Quoted from Box A Rox


I guess Bucky feels that Incest and separate rest rooms are unconstitutional.
I'm glad that the Supreme Court has more sense than Bucky.


The SCOTUS isn't supposed to have "sense" they judge disputes and whether legislation violates the constitution.  If equal protection was the reason states cannot limit the definition of marriage to a man and a woman, then they cannot limit the number of people entered into the marriage contract, or the relationship of those listed on the contract.


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 211 - 248
bumblethru
September 11, 2015, 11:01am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
OMG......this is the 60's hippie revolution all over again!!!

or should I say....expanded upon!

everything and anything goes.....

if it feels good....do it...

no absolutes.....no morals.....no right or wrong.

remember folks.......most in political power....and most running for office ARE left over HIPPIES!!!!

so remember to vote for your favorite HIPPIE!!  


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 212 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 9:15am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes
Anti-gay marriage clerk Kim Davis is about to get a rude awakening in her hometown.

Non-profit organization Planting Peace just erected the above billboard in Davis' hometown of
Morehead, Kentucky. The message is plain and simple -- if Davis is going to use Biblical rhetoric
to justify her opposition to same-sex marriage, she might want to take a closer look at how else
marriage has been redefined in relation to the book's sacred teachings.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 213 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 2:23pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 214 - 248
CICERO
September 12, 2015, 2:58pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
18,232
Reputation
68.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -8
Time Online
702 days 15 hours 7 minutes
Quoted from Box A Rox


She didn't break a federal law that I am aware of.  Did congress pass a law that she violated?


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 215 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 3:49pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes
Quoted from CICERO


She didn't break a federal law that I am aware of.  Did congress pass a law that she violated?

Contempt of court.  But you already knew that!  



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 216 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 3:52pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes
Davis had refused to give licenses to same-sex couples after June's Supreme Court decision on grounds
that issuing the licenses would violate her Christian convictions against same-sex marriage.

A federal judge ordered her to jail Thursday, ruling she was in contempt of court for refusing to issue the
licenses and not allowing her deputies to distribute them for her.
(Had Davis allowed her deputies to issue marriage licenses, she would not have been
charged.  Of course her aim was to FORCE her religion on the rest of us non believers!)


U.S. District Judge David Bunning said Davis would remain behind bars until she complies.
Five of her deputies agreed Thursday to issue marriage licenses in her absence and the
Rowan County Clerk's Office began doing so the following day.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 217 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 4:14pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 218 - 248
CICERO
September 12, 2015, 5:20pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
18,232
Reputation
68.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -8
Time Online
702 days 15 hours 7 minutes
Quoted from Box A Rox
Davis had refused to give licenses to same-sex couples after June's Supreme Court decision on grounds
that issuing the licenses would violate her Christian convictions against same-sex marriage.

A federal judge ordered her to jail Thursday, ruling she was in contempt of court for refusing to issue the
licenses and not allowing her deputies to distribute them for her.
(Had Davis allowed her deputies to issue marriage licenses, she would not have been
charged.  Of course her aim was to FORCE her religion on the rest of us non believers!)


U.S. District Judge David Bunning said Davis would remain behind bars until she complies.
Five of her deputies agreed Thursday to issue marriage licenses in her absence and the
Rowan County Clerk's Office began doing so the following day.


You do know that her only refusal was not putting her name on the license?  She was fine with recording and filing same sex marriage licenses that did not have her name on them.  


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 219 - 248
joebxr
September 12, 2015, 5:30pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
6,667
Reputation
70.00%
Reputation Score
+14 / -6
Time Online
276 days 6 hours 18 minutes
Quoted from CICERO


You do know that her only refusal was not putting her name on the license?  She was fine with recording and filing same sex marriage licenses that did not have her name on them.  

WRONG...she refused to ISSUE a license.
As for those issued when she was incarcerated, she was very vocal that they were not legal and she would
do whatever to invalidate them.


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
Logged
Private Message Reply: 220 - 248
Box A Rox
September 12, 2015, 5:34pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
25,926
Reputation
58.62%
Reputation Score
+17 / -12
Time Online
514 days 11 hours 54 minutes
Quoted from CICERO


You do know that her only refusal was not putting her name on the license?  She was fine with recording and filing same sex marriage licenses that did not have her name on them.  

Isn't that part of her job?
She could have left that part of the job to the rest of the crew who had no problem with
same sex marriage.
This wasn't about her religion, it was about a political agenda.

BTW, did you get my answer about her crime???


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 221 - 248
senders
September 12, 2015, 5:49pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
a town clerk can also 'drag their feet' when filing for things that the town needs filed because the clerk doesn't like the party in power.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 222 - 248
CICERO
September 12, 2015, 5:56pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
18,232
Reputation
68.00%
Reputation Score
+17 / -8
Time Online
702 days 15 hours 7 minutes
Quoted from joebxr

WRONG...she refused to ISSUE a license.
As for those issued when she was incarcerated, she was very vocal that they were not legal and she would
do whatever to invalidate them.


Yes, she would invalidate any same sex marriage certificate issued with her name "affixed to the certificate".

Follow the story a little closer joey...What she is asking for is an accommodation where same sex marriage certificates affix another name to the certificates.  She doesn't want her name on the certificate as if she personally endorsed the same sex marriage.  She isn't trying to DENY same sex couples from getting married. She's trying to get her name OFF of the certificates.

Quoted Text
Davis previously said she will not authorize her office to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples if her name remains on the certificate. Bunning's order makes no mention of revising the licenses to accommodate Davis, who says issuing a license with her name on it would violate her Christian convictions against same-sex marriage.

One of Davis' attorneys said Bunning hasn't resolved anything.

"We've asked for a simple solution -- get her name and authority off the certificate. The judge could order that," Staver said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/08/politics/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage-kentucky/index.html




Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 223 - 248
joebxr
September 12, 2015, 7:28pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
6,667
Reputation
70.00%
Reputation Score
+14 / -6
Time Online
276 days 6 hours 18 minutes
Quoted from CICERO


Yes, she would invalidate any same sex marriage certificate issued with her name "affixed to the certificate".

Follow the story a little closer joey...What she is asking for is an accommodation where same sex marriage certificates affix another name to the certificates.  She doesn't want her name on the certificate as if she personally endorsed the same sex marriage.  She isn't trying to DENY same sex couples from getting married. She's trying to get her name OFF of the certificates.




Oh Sissy...you disappoint.
Yes, I am very familiar and have followed.
It is you that doesn't pay attention.
Quoted from CICERO
You do know that her only refusal was not putting her name on the license?  She was fine with recording and filing same sex marriage licenses that did not have her name on them.  

She REFUSED to issue licenses...how many different ways does this need to be explained
to you before it finally registers?
Having her name on them was her issue AFTER being jailed and since being released...but you see, for the licenses
to be valid, HER NAME MUST APPEAR ON THEM or someone else needs to have that authority, which means then
all duties are assigned to new signatory. She's being selective, both in her personal beliefs and her responsibilities.
She needs to be removed from that office if she is not willing to conduct the business she is entrusted to conduct.

Can't believe you continue this charade...why aren't you irate about her deviance of separation of church and state
instead of trying to defend this idiot.




JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
Logged
Private Message Reply: 224 - 248
17 Pages « ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 » Recommend Thread
|


Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread