The only person who is out of touch with reality is the constant whiner.

1st - The proposal to build a FunZone in the mall came from the MALL OWNER not from anyone on the commission.  You see that is how it actually works -- PROPERTY OWNERS and/or DEVELOPERS come up with a plan of how THEY want to improve/develop THEIR property.  The owners want to build an aquarium and a FunZone. The owners came up with a good plan and the money to do it.  The plan meets the zoning, ordinances, codes, etc.  So they got the go ahead to do with THEIR property what THEY have chosen to invest THEIR money in.

2nd - Bowling is actually seeing an upturn in popularity.   1 in 6 Americans bowl at least once a year.  Bowling teams are becoming popular in schools again.  Bowling is popular among older Americans and those with conditions that limit their ability to play other sports.  All types of bowling - including versions of bowling with lighter balls are becoming popular.   Oh -- and this is the important FACT  -- bowling lanes that are located in family-friendly facilities with malls or former big box stores  ---facilities with food and activities for people of ALL ages have been a key factor in the growth of bowling facilities and bowling's popularity in the past few years.   Hmm -- this is EXACTLY what the new owners of the mall are proposing. -- Another thing -- those FACTS on bowling come from the PBA (Pro Bowling Association) and other sources .. you see .. members of the planning commission actually do their homework and know what they are talking about .. (cough, cough) unlike a perpetually whining critic.

3rd - We (as a town) should really be working to lure companies like Bass Pro Shop.   If every hunter, angler and outdoor sports enthusiast in town called Bass Pro Shop or signed a petition ... we could land them.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

The only person who is out of touch with reality is the constant whiner.

1st - The proposal to build a FunZone in the mall came from the MALL OWNER not from anyone on the commission.  You see that is how it actually works -- PROPERTY OWNERS and/or DEVELOPERS come up with a plan of how THEY want to improve/develop THEIR property.  The owners want to build an aquarium and a FunZone. The owners came up with a good plan and the money to do it.  The plan meets the zoning, ordinances, codes, etc.  So they got the go ahead to do with THEIR property what THEY have chosen to invest THEIR money in.

2nd - Bowling is actually seeing an upturn in popularity.   1 in 6 Americans bowl at least once a year.  Bowling teams are becoming popular in schools again.  Bowling is popular among older Americans and those with conditions that limit their ability to play other sports.  All types of bowling - including versions of bowling with lighter balls are becoming popular.   Oh -- and this is the important FACT  -- bowling lanes that are located in family-friendly facilities with malls or former big box stores  ---facilities with food and activities for people of ALL ages have been a key factor in the growth of bowling facilities and bowling's popularity in the past few years.   Hmm -- this is EXACTLY what the new owners of the mall are proposing. -- Another thing -- those FACTS on bowling come from the PBA (Pro Bowling Association) and other sources .. you see .. members of the planning commission actually do their homework and know what they are talking about .. (cough, cough) unlike a perpetually whining critic.

3rd - We (as a town) should really be working to lure companies like Bass Pro Shop.   If every hunter, angler and outdoor sports enthusiast in town called Bass Pro Shop or signed a petition ... we could land them.

is there tax payer 'INCENTIVE' money used? IDA etc, whether it be county/town/state?????

Quoted from senders

is there tax payer 'INCENTIVE' money used? IDA etc, whether it be county/town/state?????

I have not read or heard of any money other than the developer/owner's money being used for this project. None, zip, nada. Kind of refreshing for a change.

From what I can see all the demo work on the fun zone side of the mall appears to be done. They have begun to demo the TJ Maxx side, which is where the aquarium will be.

And the rumors continue to persist that Shop Rite has interest in the Macy's site as well.

The IDA was dissolved over 4 years ago.  So I don't see them getting any money from a non-existent entity.

The owner has committed to investing up to $10 million in the mall.  The proposed aquarium and fun-zone are reportedly costing something like $1.5 million totally.  

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

The IDA was dissolved over 4 years ago.  So I don't see them getting any money from a non-existent entity.

The owner has committed to investing up to $10 million in the mall.  The proposed aquarium and fun-zone are reportedly costing something like $1.5 million totally.  

the ROTTERDAM IDA was dissolved......there are others

Quoted from senders

the ROTTERDAM IDA was dissolved......there are others

An IDA from another municipality can not spend money in Rotterdam.

It has been publicly stated in various media sources that the OWNER is investing up to $10 million to improve the mall.  That investment is over and above the amount that they paid to purchase the property.  There is no indication anywhere that money is coming from any other source than the owner.  

So I don't see the point of trying to create an issue where there is no issue.  

crossgates will not be getting a bowling alley.
the company backed out.

Quoted from bumblethru

crossgates will not be getting a bowling alley.
the company backed out.

From what I read the company was in serious financial trouble, hence the "backing out".

Quoted from Alva White

I have not read or heard of any money other than the developer/owner's money being used for this project. None, zip, nada. Kind of refreshing for a change.

From what I can see all the demo work on the fun zone side of the mall appears to be done. They have begun to demo the TJ Maxx side, which is where the aquarium will be.

And the rumors continue to persist that Shop Rite has interest in the Macy's site as well.

My wife and I have actually been to the mall and made purchases at least 4 times in the past month.

I'm hoping they do well.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

The only person who is out of touch with reality is the constant whiner.
…
2nd - Bowling is actually seeing an upturn in popularity.
…
All types of bowling - including versions of bowling with lighter balls are becoming popular

What is “all types” by your definition?    

Lighter balls?  I guess you bowl with an inflatable ball and use two hands?   What "versions" of bowling are there with lighter balls?  Do you even have a clue what weight is the norm?  Obviously you don’t  know that the little 5 yr old bantams use 8 pound balls and have been doing so for at least 50 years.  So what are these versions you mention of “lighter balls.”   There are two other types of bowling with totally different types of bowling balls, smaller ones, the scoring is different, the approaches are different and these two types of bowling are in only a few states each, none in NY that I'm aware of.

And bowling popular among older people, DUH.  That's nothing new.  But then you probably never heard of a guy named Wing Wong.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

Another thing -- those FACTS on bowling come from the PBA (Pro Bowling Association) and other sources .. you see .. members of the planning commission actually do their homework and know what they are talking about .. (cough, cough).

The “FACTS” ?????    Your made up so called “facts”   Just like your claim that it is a “FACT” that county taxes are lower now than in the 1970’s (still you have not provided a shred of proof on that one)??????

You did your homework????????

You did notice that it was ME who did my homework and told YOU about the far fewer bowling alleys in Schenectady county alone?  I guess you ignored that FACT  In Schenectady we had:  Boulevard Bowl, Revere Lanes (formerly Empire Lanes), Woodlawn Lanes, Sportsman’s Bowl, Towne Academy, Rolling Greens, Scotia Lanes, Burnt Hills Lanes, Skyway Bowl-a-drome, Mt Pleasant Lanes, GEAA Lanes, and Paramount Lanes.  Today there is Boulevard Bowl, Sportsman’s Bowl, Towne, and Rolling Greens (which moved into the building that was once known as Scotia Lanes).  There were 12, it’s down to 4 now.  Can you do the math to tell us what percent REDUCTION of bowling alleys that amounts to?



Now, um, cough cough, from the PBA (the organization that YOU cited):

Quoted Text

There was a time when professional bowlers reigned supreme.

In the "golden era" of the 1960s and 70s, they made twice as much money as NFL stars, signed million dollar contracts, and were heralded as international celebrities. After each match, they’d be flanked by beautiful women who’d seen them bowl on television, or had read about them in Sports Illustrated.

Today, the glitz and glamour has faded. Pro bowlers supplement their careers with second jobs, like delivering sod, or working at a call center. They share Motel 6 rooms on tour to save on travel expenses, and thrive on the less-than-exciting dime of beef jerky sponsorships.

Once sexy, bowling is now synonymous with cheap beer and smelly feet. In an entertainment-saturated culture, has the once formidable sport been gutter-balled?

From the 1940s to the 1970s, bowling saw a golden age, and the sport’s professionals were its unbridled kingpins.

With the rise in popularity of  televised bowling and its superstars, recreational bowling also saw a boom in the 1960s: over 12,000 sanctioned alleys were constructed during the decade. The U.S. Bowling Congress peaked at 4.6 million recreational members. As one long-time “just for fun” bowler puts it: “Bowling was the thing to do back then. Every weekend, those places would be packed with kids, parents, grandparents. Everyone bowled.”

But by the 1980s, bowling was starting to lose steam. Action bowling fizzled out as all the “studs” left for the PBA, and the bowling in general wasn’t receiving nearly as much buzz as it did twenty years earlier.



Carmen Salvino was one of the best bowlers in the 1970s, and he surrounded himself with equally successful lane lizards. “We were like rockstars,” he reflects. “It’s a little different for the guys today.”

That certainly seems to be true.

The sport lulled in the 1980s and 1990s. By 2000, the debt-riddled PBA was doing so poorly that Microsoft employee Chris Peters, along with two of his co-workers, purchased it for $5 million -- less than the cost of a minor league baseball team. Peters set to work revamping the website (he purchased the domain pba.com), setting up the tech to stream every PBA tour event live over the internet, and pitching PBA coverage to major networks. Peters optimistically spoke with Sports Illustrated in 2000:


"There was a time that NASCAR was just a bunch of Southerners turning left. We think the PBA can be the next NASCAR. Fifty million Americans bowl. A good number of them are watching now, with no promotion, no major effort in marketing."

But 14 years later, the results don’t look so stellar. According to the United States Bowling Congress, league bowling once generated about 70% of a bowling center’s business; today, it generates only 40% of overall bowling business. Likewise, membership in the organization declined 36% from 2000-2010, and the number of bowling sanctioned alleys in the United States has been cut in half since the 1960s.

Things aren’t looking stellar for PBA bowlers, either.

Of the 300 bowlers who competed in PBA events during the 2012-2013 season, a select few did surprisingly well. The average yearly salary of the top ten competitors was just below $155,000, with Sean Rash topping the list at $248,317. Even so, in the 1960s, top bowlers made twice as much as top football stars -- today, as the highest grossing professional bowler in the world, Sean Rash makes significantly less than a rookie NFL player’s minimum base salary of $375,000.

Walter Ray Williams, Jr. remembers when there always seemed to be a good bowling match on TV:

“I got to see the ‘heyday’ of bowling, in the late 70’s. There were a lot more average Americans who knew who the star bowlers were. Back when there were 3 channels to watch on Saturday afternoon, bowling did very well. But bowling has trouble getting the sponsors that it deserves due to media and corporate America ignoring it.”

Other bowlers speculate that the sport has suffered from the promulgation of technology that has made bowling easier: lane slicking machines, more "dynamic" balls, and electronic scoring systems that allow people to play without really getting to know how the rules work. During the 1968-69 season, 905 perfect games were rolled; the 1998-99 season saw 34,470. A 300 score just isn't as special as it used to be, and some surmise these numbers are a sign the game has become too easy to conquer.

They’re high hopes, but research insinuates there might be a revival on the horizon: more than one third of children between the ages of 6 and 18 bowl; 12 percent of them list bowling as their favorite activity. The White Hutchinson study finds that children are 80% more involved in bowling than any other age bracket – there is a steep drop off in participation after the age of 18.

So how popular is bowling locally?   Obviously it's popularity is massively falling given the FACT that most of the bowling alleys have closed and there are no re-openings of existing vacant bowling establishments.

And further, locally, did you ever hear of the Pepsi Challenge?  Big about 25 years ago.  It died.

You did your homework?  Tell us about the Northern Bowler’s Association?  If you really did your homework, you could tell us about that one, here, an excerpt from the Gazette just a year ago:

Quoted Text

Northern Bowlers Association ceases operations
By Bob Weiner  September 12, 2014

For now, and perhaps forever, the Northern Bowlers Association is dormant. According to executive director Karl Bieber, there will be no NBA this year, removing one option for scratch tournament bowlers who enjoyed competing once a month on tough conditions. “I think it’s time to sit back and relax now,” said Bieber, who helped re-invent the popular organization that traces back to the 1960s.

If you did your homework, tell us about the Press Tournament?   Do you know where and when it is held?   Cat got your tongue?


How many bowlers are on the local high school teams?  (and what is the number of students in the high schools)




If it’s becoming more popular as you claim, then WHY is there a reduction of bowling establishments?   You say they are opening in former big box stores.  Gee, now why would they open a new place in an old store when there are existing vacant bowling establishments that are just sitting there EMPTY?  (locally, still standing, Mt Pleasant Lanes, Revere Lanes).

Yeah, I’m sure that parents are comfortable with dropping off their little ones at a bowling place in a mall while they go shopping.  Since you have never known the pleasure of creating a new life and raising that child, you also do not know the responsibilities that go with being a parent and these days, you just don’t leave your kids anywhere.

I can just imagine going shopping, packages in hand, and everyone carrying their bowling bag too.  When people go shopping, most prefer to come home with their purchases and put them away, set them up.  Yeah, people are really going to go to a store, buy a laptop and leave it on the table in the mall's bowling alley when it’s their turn to get up and bowl.  

Perhaps families might go to a bowling alley at a mall, but why bother when you can go to the existing bowling alleys with food and other activities?  

Maybe you can explain, if bowling is becoming so popular again, why is it no longer necessary to reserve a lane or pair of lanes for open bowling or rock-n-bowl?  


Hey, it's the new owner's money, if they want to risk it, fine.  As long as it's not the taxpayers' money (and I don't think this project has tax money involved, we'll see if he grieves the assessment after the place is redone).  Some big malls in big cities, maybe bowling alleys at a mall work.  But Schenectady and Rotterdam are and will newer be "destination places."   And you reference "family activities."   Again, as you do not have a family, you wouldn't know that few families do things together these days.  The days of Sunday dinners at grandparents' house is virtually unheard of today, maybe one child (and spouse) of the couple might visit periodically, but the kids, nah.  Even if kids are there, they are not there, their faces buried in their phones.  Few if any families get together for a summer picnic.  People don't even throw the surprise silver anniversary party or golden anniversary party anymore.  Families do not even sit around a table in the evening and play board games.  Most kids, while they like when their parents attend their games at school, the kids (teens I'm talking) loathe when mom and dad are following them around (again, you are clearly inexperienced in this area).  We've long been away from board games--with our children--but we consider ourselves fortunate in that we often do our cycling as a family.  

So it's the owner's own money, but we have Sportsman's Bowl and Towne very close by if we want to bowl.    

Quoted from mikechristine1

Lighter balls?  I guess you bowl with an inflatable ball and use two hands?   What "versions" of bowling are there with lighter balls?  Do you even have a clue what weight is the norm?  Obviously you don’t  know that the little 5 yr old bantams use 8 pound balls and have been doing so for at least 50 years.  So what are these versions you mention of “lighter balls.”   There are two other types of bowling with totally different types of bowling balls, smaller ones, the scoring is different, the approaches are different and these two types of bowling are in only a few states each, none in NY that I'm aware of.

So I guess the guys I (old person) owl with don't use regulation balls because they aren't 16#, right.
Well trolls, I use a 14# ball, like many other bowlers, amateur and pro. You will also find women using 10# and 12# balls.
Pro bowlers (many) use 14# and 15# balls, or combination of weights depending on lane conditions, etc.
So, he/she know it all....aren't these LIGHTER BALLS (and by the way, they have become more common)?

I don't see bowling being a draw, for many of the reasons MC1 just stated, with that said any new money going into the mall is good money to me.

I think this is a good investment for the new owners.  In today's day and age, parents that have birthday parties for their elementary school aged kids have the parties at places like bowling alleys, fun zones, laser tag, mini golf, or other kid oriented activities.  People don't have kids parties at their homes. There is absolutely no place in Schenectady County for kid party activities.  Most of the time you are traveling to Latham, Colonie, Clifton Park, or Guilderland.  I think it will do well.

#1)  There are actually Five main variations of pin bowling: Ten-pin bowling, Nine-pin bowling, Candlepin bowling, Duckpin bowling, Five-pin bowling -- and then variations within each.   ALL OF THEM are rising in popularity in the US.  Then there are the non-pin bowling games like bocce -- which are also growing in popularity in the US.  The funzone is not your old fashioned bowling alley -- it will have a variety of activities for people of all ages.  THAT is why it will be successful.  It doesn't depend on 1 activity to draw people in.

#2) the FunZone will be great for parties of people of ALL ages -- children, teens, young adults, middle agers and seniors .. because it will have a variety of activities for people of ALL ages .. and don't forget the restaurant and the bar that will be a part of it.

#3) I still think the town needs bocce courts in at least one of its parks.  But since that will never happen, I will just build one in my yard.

Although I have my doubts about the long term success of this, I'm glad that they are trying something.

Even before the announcement of the project, the Sears side of the mall was a ghost town....it would have just continued to slide.

My doubts about the long term viability as based on this areas track record... great support until the newness wears off, and then its on to the next flavor of the month