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God Gives Israel More Land
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Sombody
September 2, 2014, 2:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CICERO


It gets even crazier.  Abraham and Sarah were not Jewish by lineage either, they were converts.  The reason Isaac is considered jewish is because he followed "God" and Ishmael didn't.  Ishmael didn't convert.


Convert ? are u kidding ? When was that ?

Are you  a Jehovah witness ? cause i know they make up a lot of their own stuff too.


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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CICERO
September 2, 2014, 4:36pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sombody


Convert ? are u kidding ? When was that ?

Are you  a Jehovah witness ? cause i know they make up a lot of their own stuff too.

Unless this is one of those Jehovah Witness Rabbi's

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/from-idolatry-to-conversion/conversion/?p=3415

Quoted Text
Question: Was Abraham the first Jew? Was he a Convert?

Answer: You are asking a great question. In Jewish tradition, Abraham is indeed considered the very first Jew. This title is bestowed on him for he was the first person in the world to arrive, on his own, to a recognition of God as Master of the World. Although people before him acknowledged the existence of a God, their knowledge was based on external information: a tradition passed down, parent to child, since Adam. Abraham, in contrast, arrived at the knowledge of an existence of a Supreme Creator on his own, without any external information. This fact marks Abraham as unique in the history of the world.

Whether Abraham is considered a convert may get into a question of semantics. The formal laws of conversion, per se, were not concertized until the Torah was given to the Jewish people on Mount Sinai. Before the giving of the Torah, becoming a Jew was a much less formal procedure, more predicated on one’s belief than a formal conversion ceremony: acceptance of God as the One Supreme Ruler of the universe sufficed to label one as a Jew. As such, Abraham could certainly be considered a convert to Judaism, but not in the same sense that we think of the conversion process today.

Be well,
Rabbi Yoel Spotts


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CICERO
September 2, 2014, 4:42pm Report to Moderator

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In case that one didn't work for ya.

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Throughout history there have been men and women who joined the Jewish people through conversion. In Genesis, after Abraham was called by God to journey to the land of Canaan, we read: "Abraham went forth as the Lord had commanded him. Abraham took his wife Sarai and his brother's son Lot ... and the persons that they had acquired in Haran". According to rabbinic interpretation, the "persons they had acquired" represented the first converts to Judaism and all converts, when they acquire their Hebrew name, are known as ben (son of) or bat (daughter of) Abraham.

The most famous example of a biblical convert is Ruth who, we are told, was the great-grandmother of King David. Since tradition says that the Messiah will come from the line of David, then the Messiah too will be descended from a convert to Judaism.

In the Talmudic period several well-known rabbis and scholars were themselves converts, or descended from converts, and there have also been interesting examples of group conversion to Judaism, like the entire kingdom of the Khazars in the eighth century.


http://www.convertingtojudaism.com/Historical-Background.htm


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Sombody
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"As such, Abraham could certainly be considered a convert to Judaism, but not in the same sense that we think of the conversion process today.

you see . your stretching the truth- calling  Abraham converted Jew  that is just soo cicero-


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CICERO
September 2, 2014, 8:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sombody


"As such, Abraham could certainly be considered a convert to Judaism, but not in the same sense that we think of the conversion process today.

you see . your stretching the truth- calling  Abraham converted Jew  that is just soo cicero-


Stretching the truth?  What did you read?  He was the first Jew.  What was Abraham's mother and father if not Jewish?  What about Abraham's older brother Haram?  Wouldn't his older brother be the first Jewish person in the "bloodline"?


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Sombody
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Quoted from CICERO


Stretching the truth?  What did you read?  He was the first Jew.  What was Abraham's mother and father if not Jewish?  What about Abraham's older brother Haram?  Wouldn't his older brother be the first Jewish person in the "bloodline"?


He was Hebrew


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senders
September 3, 2014, 3:30am Report to Moderator
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then why are Jews considered an ethnicity? Jews from Israel as if it was the land they were born on like the American Indian....

Jewish does not equate to ethnicity like African american.....Irish american....Italian American

who says Hebrew American?


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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CICERO
September 3, 2014, 5:12am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sombody


He was Hebrew


Then Ishmael was too, so his descendants are Israelites.  


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bumblethru
September 3, 2014, 7:39am Report to Moderator
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Hagar was an Egyptian.

God made it clear to Abraham that the child born from Sarah and Abraham would be the one that would inherit God's covenant. Abraham and Sarah are  the ones who screwed up here. It was Sarah who chose Hagar as a surrogate and Abraham obviously agreed!  If they had only waited on God...we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The muslims believe that since Ishmael was the first born of Abraham....it is he that should inherit God's covenant.


This is the historical root of the Israeli conflict....


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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CICERO
September 3, 2014, 8:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from bumblethru
Hagar was an Egyptian.

God made it clear to Abraham that the child born from Sarah and Abraham would be the one that would inherit God's covenant.


He obviously didn't make it clear.  God allegedly told one person.  Nobody else received the memo.  Anybody can convert and become Jewish.  Jewishness is a belief and not a people.  If everybody followed the laws of the Talmud, then Israel belongs to everybody.


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Sombody
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Quoted from CICERO


He obviously didn't make it clear.  God allegedly told one person.  Nobody else received the memo.  Anybody can convert and become Jewish.  Jewishness is a belief and not a people.  If everybody followed the laws of the Talmud, then Israel belongs to everybody.


the gospel according to cicero-

its a little bit fishy though-


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CICERO
September 3, 2014, 9:33am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sombody


the gospel according to cicero-

its a little bit fishy though-


Do your own research.  Abraham is no more the bloodline of the Jewish people than Peter is of a Christian people.


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bumblethru
September 3, 2014, 11:22am Report to Moderator
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it's all convoluted today! It's all about business...globally!
check this out.....

http://jpupdates.com/2014/09/0.....mmit-tourism-effort/
Quoted Text
Gov. Cuomo Announces Joint New York-Israel Tech Summit And Tourism Effort

Yesterday  3:45 PM by JP Newsroom Leave a comment (0) Go to comments


Following a briefing to leaders of the national Jewish community on the success of his recent trip to Israel, Governor Cuomo on Tuesday announced that New York State is launching a new initiative to pursue partnership opportunities with the Israeli government that will drive tourism, commerce, and private sector investments, ultimately growing both economies.

The initiative is designed to strengthen the special bond between Israel and New York, which are home to the two largest Jewish populations in the world and is part of the State’s Global NY initiative introduced in Governor Cuomo’s 2014 State of the State Address to attract international investment and jobs to New York.

As of such, the Governor said he intends to explore the possibility of hosting a joint tech summit to benefit New York State and Israel.

Additionally, the State will pursue the first global Path Through History initiative with Israel, to promote historic sites and tourism in Israel and New York through a joint marketing effort. This provides an opportunity to build appreciation for the rich history and culture of both New York State and Israel, as well as the rich history we share.

“New York is fortunate to have a long-standing bond with Israel, and today I am proud to announce that we are working to make this partnership the strongest it has ever been,” Governor Cuomo said at a press conference on the 3rd floor of the Jewish Museum in Manhattan.

“Our state stands shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and it is more important now than ever to make this commitment clear,” he continued. “From our recent Unity trip to the launch of this new initiative, we are affirming the deep cultural, social and economic relationships that connect our two regions. We are also showing the world that friends stand together in times of crisis, and I am confident that this new partnership will strengthen the ties between New York and Israel for years to come.”

In the coming weeks, Israeli and New York State officials will meet to explore ways to expand opportunities for local job seekers and businesses in a variety of industries including tourism, technology, energy and agriculture, the governor’s office announced. Representatives of Empire State Development, New York State Energy Research and Development Authority, the Department of Agriculture and Markets, as well as members of the Governor’s administration and others, will convene with their Israeli counterparts to analyze potential agreements that may be established.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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bumblethru
June 14, 2016, 6:32am Report to Moderator
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When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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