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Draper School to House Undocumented Children
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CICERO
July 12, 2014, 5:02pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


That's funny, I just unloaded my kid on Brazil.

She's at the World Cup.



I'm pretty sure she didn't get out of the free USA or into Brazil without being well documented with a passport.  


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CICERO
July 12, 2014, 5:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


I have opened my home to people who had nowhere to stay many times.



South American children?


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CICERO
July 12, 2014, 5:05pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


There is no asterisk on the Statue Of Liberty that says "limited offer." [/b]



Does the Statue of Liberty define a border?


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Libertarian4life
July 12, 2014, 5:32pm Report to Moderator

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Borders are use of force against the right to travel freely.

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Libertarian4life
July 12, 2014, 5:33pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


Does the Statue of Liberty define a border?


I never took you to be just another loyal nationalist.

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Henry
July 12, 2014, 6:54pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


Only because we spend all our money on the military and on programs of exclusion.

There is no asterisk on the Statue Of Liberty that says "limited offer."




Like I said our country isn't prepared to deal with them, the only way it would work is to expand the role of government and increase taxes on all of us. I'm not prepared to pay extra for those who didn't help themselves or their own country, and I wouldn't spit on those who tried and sacrificed a lot to come here legally, its a slap in the face to most of our ancestors.


"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

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CICERO
July 12, 2014, 7:06pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


I never took you to be just another loyal nationalist.



I'm not, just curious why you use national monuments to justify mass immigration that is subsidized by federal, state, and local taxes.  If there are open borders, there is no government, and no need for citizenship.  Which I could agree with.  But you want the government defined by US borders to subsidize a massive amount of people that cannot support themselves when they arrive.  They sent children here, with no chance of providing life's necessities for themselves.  


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CICERO
July 12, 2014, 7:11pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life
Borders are use of force against the right to travel freely.



I agree.  But in the same breath, you are fine with the government within those borders to assist in the immigration of children that they know cannot support themselves, and will be paid to care for them through the forced taxation of the people they govern.  So you support some types of force.


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Libertarian4life
July 13, 2014, 2:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


... If there are open borders, there is no government, and no need for citizenship.  Which I could agree with.  But you want the government defined by US borders to subsidize a massive amount of people that cannot support themselves when they arrive....  


Not true at all.

Most of Europe has open borders.

Free travel does not mean "no government."

I don't want the government subsidizing anyone.

I also do not want the government disallowing anyone from free travel.

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Libertarian4life
July 13, 2014, 2:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


I agree.  But in the same breath, you are fine with the government within those borders to assist in the immigration of children that they know cannot support themselves, and will be paid to care for them through the forced taxation of the people they govern.  So you support some types of force.


I never said any of that.

The force was already done. That can't be changed. They have our money.

I simply said that I would be happy to (over)charge the government that was looking to pass out our extorted cash.

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Libertarian4life
July 13, 2014, 2:26pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


I agree.  But in the same breath, you are fine with the government within those borders to assist in the immigration of children that they know cannot support themselves, and will be paid to care for them through the forced taxation of the people they govern.  So you support some types of force.


If it were possible to stop taxation, your argument would hold water.

The taxation is a done deal.

All one can hope for is to get an opportunity to take some cash back.

That isn't supporting the use of force through taxation.

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Libertarian4life
July 13, 2014, 2:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO

  But you want the government defined by US borders to subsidize a massive amount of people that cannot support themselves when they arrive.  


No, you are the one supporting the use of force to prevent free travel.

Freedom to travel is not meant only for those who provide documentation that they have assets.

Freedom means freedom to travel and have a chance at making a life.

The government should have no part in the process whatsoever.

No laws should limit freedom of movement.

As far as the refugee welfare, that's box's lord and master at work.

But don't think for a minute that I would not seek to profit off of the extortionists.

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joebxr
July 13, 2014, 2:37pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life
Most of Europe has open borders.


Only AFTER creation of the EU, which was done for economic reasons.
They also now suffer from ILLEGAL immigrants and are having difficulty dealing with it.


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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Libertarian4life
July 13, 2014, 3:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


Only AFTER creation of the EU, which was done for economic reasons.
They also now suffer from ILLEGAL immigrants and are having difficulty dealing with it.


They deal with it by teaching tolerance and acceptance of minority diversity.

http://cadmus.eui.eu/bitstream/handle/1814/20975/ACCEPT_Handbook_Tolerance_2012_rev2.pdf?sequence=1

Europe had open borders long before the Euro was born.

Xenophobes call it "suffering from illegal immigrants."

Compassionate humans call them new neighbors and welcome diversity.

The Puritans were not legal immigrants.

They were refugees.



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CICERO
July 13, 2014, 3:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


Not true at all.

Most of Europe has open borders.

Free travel does not mean "no government."

I don't want the government subsidizing anyone.

I also do not want the government disallowing anyone from free travel.



You have open border in the US too.  They are between 50 states.  Europe formed a Union similar the the United State.(and it's beginning to break up).  

Now, as the republic is structured right now, for this to be equated to Europe, the South American countries that are sending immigrants to the US, that would require them to join the Union, and contribute into the social welfare programs which will be supporting their poor.  

Open borders cannot work without the strict recognition of private property rights. You can't allow unlimited immigration and dump them onto the public welfare system and expect the collective to fund those government welfare programs through forced taxation to foot the bill.  If the immigrants were buying property and producing for themselves like what happened during the 1800's and 1900's, that would be a bit closer to the open borders I believe you are talking about.  But to put a generation of immigrant children on welfare, you are creating a generation that will only know welfare.  Which will lead to a cycle of generational welfare.



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