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What if there is no political retribution?
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CICERO
May 19, 2013, 8:39am Report to Moderator

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The best case scenario for all of the political scandal that is now happening is DC is if there is no political fallout.  At a time when government distrust is high, I see no better scenario than watching this political theater with no action.  The American citizens are watching a time in American history where Washington is being accused of lying to the American public in order to win an election(Benghazi), using the most feared arm of the government in the IRS to target political opponents, and the targeting of news agencies under the guise of national security to suppress the press.  And with all this going on, this President's administration is responding to it as if it is all out of his control.  He is merely a bystander while these federal bureaucracies use the powers allegedly granted by the governed - to lie to, suppress, and mislead the American people.   As I've said before, these national elections are nothing more than a charade, it is theater to give the American people the illusion that who they vote for matters.  Obama, the leader of the "free world" couldn't have made it clearer that our government institutions are out of his control.  

Without political retribution of some high ranking elected officials, this will confirm in many Americans minds that elections don't matter.  These very powerful government agencies under the control of unelected bureaucrats can do anything they want, and there is nobody that can stop them.  Not even the President.  The only thing these elected politicians can do is attempt to explain away these abuses of power to it's citizens after the abuse happens, and hope the American people will buy it.  

So I can only hope that nothing happens in response to these evident abuses of power.  This will help expose the illegitimacy of the federal government.  This will strengthen the argument for those that oppose big government.   It will result the American people's disenchantment with government, and fewer people participating in the fraudulent and pointless political process, giving the government even less consent to govern.  

So I'm with everybody that says these are just a manufactured scandals by the Republicans.  



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Shadow
May 19, 2013, 8:48am Report to Moderator
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What is happening in government right now is a perfect example of why there should be term limits on all elected officials. The government officials have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will say anything, do anything, {including lie to America} to keep their inflated salaries, power, and control.
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CICERO
May 19, 2013, 8:56am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow
What is happening in government right now is a perfect example of why there should be term limits on all elected officials. The government officials have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will say anything, do anything, {including lie to America} to keep their inflated salaries, power, and control.


Elected officials have no control over unelected bureaucrats running these federal bureaucracies. It doesn't matter about term limits.  That is what these scandals are making apparent to the American people.  And when Democrats say it isn't a scandal, that makes it even more apparent.  


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Shadow
May 19, 2013, 8:59am Report to Moderator
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They're appointed by the government in many cases.
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Box A Rox
May 19, 2013, 9:51am Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
A new poll shows that recent scandals haven't hurt President Obama's approval rating.

The poll, from CNN and ORC International, found that 53% of Americans approve of the job Obama
is doing, while 45% disapproved. This number remains virtually unchanged from polls taken before
the scandals hit.
The poll was taken on May 17th and 18th, and has a 3% margin of error.

A CNN poll taken in early April showed Obama's approval rating to be 51%. According to a Gallup
poll taken in early May, the president's approval rating was 50%.

The CNN poll also found that 71% of Americans find the actions of the IRS employees who targeted
Tea Party groups to be unacceptable. However, 6 in 10 respondents said they trusted the
president's statements on the issue.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
May 19, 2013, 10:06am Report to Moderator

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...And this poll was in January, before the recent news.



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Libertarian4life
May 19, 2013, 10:13am Report to Moderator

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What Really Sank Gun Control: Distrust of Government
Senator Joe Manchin defends Democrats who opposed background-check legislation, scolds Mike Bloomberg, and says Pat Toomey is still on board.
David A. Graham May 7 2013, 10:28 AM ET
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toomeymanchin.banner.reuters.jpg.jpg
Senators Pat Toomey and Joe Manchin at the unveiling of their compromise bill on expanded background checks (Reuters)

Think gun control failed in the Senate because of gun-clutching extremists? Or because of fanatical radicals who want to abolish the Second Amendment? Senator Joe Manchin, who's been at the heart of the effort, says it's nothing of the sort. In fact, the central problem really has nothing to do with firearms at all -- it's about trust.

When he speaks to gun owners, "they're scared this is the first step" in a massive government overreach, said Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat. He made the remarks during an interview with Margaret Carlson at New York Ideas, a daylong conference sponsored by The Atlantic and the Aspen Institute.

"When you say universal background check, the first thing that comes in the mind of a gun owner is that means registration, and registration means confiscation. 'I haven't broken the laws, why do you want to know everything?'" he said. According to Manchin, even in gun-loving West Virginia, constituents he spoke with repeatedly told him that if the bill did only what it said it does, they would wholeheartedly support it. ("There's a lot the NRA likes in this bill," he added.) The problem is, they're skeptical that the bill will in fact go farther than it claims. That means the effort to pass it on a second try will require emphasizing, for example, the harsh penalties associated with keeping records past a certain period.

"I have never seen something that resonated with so many people in so many parts of society because it made so much sense," Manchin said. "When something makes that much sense, you have facts to back you up, and you just have to walk out into your community and explain it."

Understanding the mentality of senators, Manchin quipped, was much harder than understanding gun owners. But he implicitly rejected President Obama's angry condemnation of senators who opposed the plan Manchin hatched with Republican Senator Pat Toomey as "shameful." To Manchin, the calculation that red-state Democrats who voted against the bill made -- including Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mark Begich of Alaska, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and Max Baucus of Montana -- was rational and understandable, even if he disagreed.

There was more castigation, however gentle, for New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, whose group Mayors Against Illegal Guns has targeted Democrats, and his allies. It's important to consider the way a red-state senator would view the situation, Manchin said, and it makes more sense to help rally support among constituents -- to create a "permission structure," as Obama might say -- so that the senators can switch their votes.

"If you were in a state such as West Virginia or North Dakota or Arkansas, which is a rural state and it's mostly gone red in national elections, how would you approach that? Would you say, 'I'm going to beat Joe Manchin up because he didn't vote the way he should have?'" Manchin asked. "Or would you say, 'I'm going to appeal to law-abding gun owners in the state,' and give me enough support from my constituents that I don't have to do hand-to-hand combat with?"

There's little profit in attacking a senator once the vote is made, he said -- especially if, like the retiring Baucus or the newly reelected Manchin, the official won't face voters for six more years or ever again. "If you beat me up now, I'm going to hunker back and defend my position. I've already made my vote! Right or wrong, I made my decision," he said. "Don't back me up against a wall."

But Manchin remains optimistic about the chances to pass the law. Although Toomey has appeared publicly unenthusiastic about a second attempt, Manchin insisted that the conservative Pennsylvanian would be on board and still supports the compromise. The nation will know soon enough whether campaigners are able to put Manchin's ideas into use -- and whether that strategy is enough to pass the first major gun legislation in two decades.
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GrahamBonnet
May 19, 2013, 11:33am Report to Moderator

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Using the IRS to go after people who disagree with government is sure to make people trust government more


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
May 19, 2013, 1:43pm Report to Moderator

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It is too early to say what the political fall out will be from all of this.  Things are still unraveling and their are rumors of some other "shoes about to fall" on the Obama administration -- so it is possible that over the next few months more light will be shed on the incompetence, corruption and abuse of power within this administration.  
As we get closer to the 2014 mid-term elections, I suspect that more and more Democrats in the House and some up for reelection in the Senate will basically decided to throw Obama overboard and will be demanding deeper investigations and that people within the administration be brought to justice.   I mean let's face it -- the liberal Democrats in Congress value their reelection and staying on the "gravy train" more than they value Obama or any of Obama's stooges in the Executive Branch.  They (the Pelosipalosers) would even be willing to sideline their extremist political agenda for 18 months -- just to get past the midterm elections safely.  And once the midterms are over, several of the Pelosipalosers will set their eyes on the White House .. so by then it will be "Barack Who?" -- so basically Obama has been reduced to swimming around the White House pool and quacking.


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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CICERO
May 19, 2013, 2:11pm Report to Moderator

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If a high profile elected official does not step out and take the bullet for these abuses, this could deliver in a huge blow to the integrity of these government institutions for the next generations.  The era of progressive activist government will be dead(good riddance). I believe that the only chance this government has to turn around the public's opinion of the federal government is to take down a high profile elected official.  Anything less, any removal of unelected bureaucrats will not suffice.  Americans have been convinced for decades that their vote counts.  These scandals reveal that these abuses of power are committed by unelected bureaucrats that will never face an election.  Taking out an elected official will be the only thing that may still give the citizens a sense of control over the government.

We will see if both establishment parties in Washington get together to figure out a way to protect the reputation of the federal government as a legitimate government.  Let's not kid ourselves, Republicans cannot damage the reputation of the federal government to the point that they cannot wield the power when their person is sitting in the White House.  

At the end of the day, it's about maintaining the legitimacy of power given to both major parties occupying the 3 branches of government.  


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DemocraticVoiceOfReason
May 19, 2013, 4:05pm Report to Moderator

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I don't believe for a moment that someone WITHIN the White House not only knew about but ordered these politically retaliatory IRS audits.   Some people are quick to laud Obama for firing the acting IRS Commissioner but he (the commissioner) was a) already leaving, b) isn't actually leaving a day sooner than originally planned and c) MOST IMPORTANTLY was not actually the one in charge when the abusive audits began.  Obama's actions thus far on IRSgate and Benghazigate are just pure buffalo poop.   Anyone who is satisfied that his actions have solved the problem are either hopelessly ignorant and/or are still living in the Obama "hope and change delusion."    

Fortunately - there is still hope because real change will come in 2016 when we elect someone like Paul Ryan as President.  


George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016
Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]

"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground."
Lyndon Baines Johnson
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Shadow
May 19, 2013, 4:09pm Report to Moderator
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Anonymous Cincinnati IRS official: “Everything comes from the top.”
May 19, 2013 | 12:30 pm | Modified: May 19, 2013 at 12:50 pm
A story in the Washington Post yesterday about the Internal Revenue Service’s Cincinnati office, which does most of the agency’s nonprofit auditing, clearly contradicted earlier reports that the agency’s targeting of Tea Party groups was the result of rogue agents.
The Post story anonymously quoted a staffer in Cincinnati as saying they only operate on directives from headquarters:

As could be expected, the folks in the determinations unit on Main Street have had trouble concentrating this week. Number crunchers, whose work is nonpolitical, don’t necessarily enjoy the spotlight, especially when the media and the public assume they’re engaged in partisan villainy.


“We’re not political,’’ said one determinations staffer in khakis as he left work late Tuesday afternoon. “We people on the local level are doing what we are supposed to do. . . . That’s why there are so many people here who are flustered. Everything comes from the top. We don’t have any authority to make those decisions without someone signing off on them. There has to be a directive.”

The staff member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing his job, said that the determinations unit is competent and without bias, that it grouped together conservative applications “for consistency’s sake” — so one application did not sail through while a similar one was held up in review. This consistency is paramount in the review of all applications, according to Ronald Ran, an estate-tax lawyer who worked for 37 years in the IRS’s Cincinnati office.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/.....top./article/2530001
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Box A Rox
May 19, 2013, 6:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO
...And this poll was in January, before the recent news.



Great post.  Americans trust Obama, not their govt. especially the US congress.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
May 19, 2013, 6:06pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


Great post.  Americans trust Obama, not their govt. especially the US congress.


That's great!  If he is more concerned about his cult of personality instead of the government institutions that are charged with governing, then he's in good shape.  


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Box A Rox
May 21, 2013, 7:30am Report to Moderator

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Republicans focus on Scandal... America focuses on improved economy!

After a week dominated by stories on Benghazi, the IRS targeting and the DOJ subpoenaing AP
phone records, President Barack Obama's job rating remains largely unaffected.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds President Obama's approval rating has remained steady
at 51% to 44%, basically unchanged over the last two months.

"A majority of Americans believe that Obama is focused on issues that are important to them personally;
just 33% think so of congressional Republicans.

Most Americans say they are optimistic about the direction of the economy. More than half, 56%,
say the economy is on the mend, the most to say so in polls since 2009."


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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