Who? Every interview I've seen or read from reputable people that were there, (children, adults and first responders, etc.), I have not heard or read one word that indicated anyone thought there was more than the one sick individual that did this. What facts did I miss? The only place I find any "conspiracy" type comments (aside from this forum), are from people with blogs and other media.
Did you watch the video, those were witness accounts
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Did you watch the video, those were witness accounts
Yes I did...and my comment was specific to Sandy Hook shooting...video shows 2 people running away from the gym....one caught, in custody, no weapons and no further charges, etc. 2nd person running away....couldn't this be same issue....someone hearing the shots and running away? Still, I stand by my comment that there are no reputable persons that have been interviewed or come forward to indicate there was more than 1 sick individual shooter. As for questioning Government accounts....I don't have to be a conspiracy nut to question these accounts....i question them always and try to rely on reputable facts to base my decisions.
Let's be honest...the media MUST create sensationalism to create readership....who wants to read a boring article. I take majority of what is printed and reported as accurate with creative license! I learned this lesson when I was in Vietnam....camp I was in was reported as having taken mortar attack from VC with unknown causalities. Reality...2 mortars landed in an open area where no one was located....they didn't even damage the radio towers....nothing of interest to report if it was accurately presented, so media fabricated something to be more than it really was. So this was my lesson learned and has driven my "questioning" what is reported from that day forward.
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
Did you watch the video, those were witness accounts
Eyewitness Memory is Unreliable "Human memory does not exist so that an observer may accurately report previously seen events. The actual, physical events are merely grist for the mill of interpretation. Each witness extracts an interpretation that is meaningful in terms of his own beliefs, experiences and needs. Once the interpretation occurs, the events themselves become relatively unimportant. Moreover, since each person interprets the events in terms of his own world view, different eyewitnesses observing the same event may have different interpretations and different memories. To put it succinctly:
"We do not see what we sense. We see what we think we sense. Our consciousness is presented with an interpretation, not the raw data. Long after presentation, an unconscious information processing has discarded information, so that we see a simulation, a hypothesis, an interpretation; and we are not free to choose" (Norretranders, 1999). Although Norretranders was talking about perception, the same basic operation applies to memory: 1) it is an interpretation, 2) the raw sensory data is largely discarded, 3) we are not free to choose, meaning that the transformation from raw data to interpretation occurs automatically and outside volition. This is why people can be so certain despite the distortion - they were not aware of having "altered the facts."
Memory is biased by question retrieval method Eyewitness memories can be biased by the questions asked at the time of retrieval. Several famous studies have shown that the question can supply information that the eyewitness will incorporate into the answer. The question can easily supply information that helps fill in gaps in the respondent's memory.
Memory Changes over time and with retelling Numerous studies have shown that memory changes over time. The most notable effects include: Eyewitnesses incorporate information learned after the event into memory. For example, they may talk to another witness and use information from the conversation to fill in their reconstruction of the events. They may do this by combining two memories into one or by using bias or expectations of what probably was seen. As people recall an event over and over, they drop details from earlier versions and add new details to later versions. All things being equal, accuracy declines with each new version.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
kinda like if one of the 'boys in blue' pull ya over for going through a stop sign........... THAT ISN'T EVEN THERE!!!!
Perhaps the 'wo/man in blue' will have a memory loss....ya know.....'thought' he saw a stop sign.....and he'd be an 'eye witness' .........PALEEEEEZ!!!!!!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Who? Every interview I've seen or read from reputable people that were there, (children, adults and first responders, etc.), I have not heard or read one word that indicated anyone thought there was more than the one sick individual that did this. What facts did I miss? The only place I find any "conspiracy" type comments (aside from this forum), are from people with blogs and other media.
THAT'S THE POINT!!!! ONE....YES, ONE CRAZY MUTHER F'EN HUMAN.....doing ANYTHING with guns is a JOKE, FACADE FALSE SECURITY ETC ETC........
and was he crazy? or a square peg on medication that we deem ALL school children be tested, just in case they dont fit the round peg into the round hole cog system......
introducing drugs to 'fit in' to the 'god system' called public schooling.....everyone who doesn't behave like the rest of the cogs COULD have a shading in them of:
ADD ADHD autism what else do those happy school psychologist call us all at one time or another?
BOTTOM LINE......SH!T HAPPENS....even with knives/spoons/fists/ropes/cars/chemicals/drugs(even legal ones)... and....EVEN by those we call 'reasonable authority'......
that would be like saying "I drive on the northway anymore. Last year there were 20 severe accidents with 2 deaths"
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
I wonder how many of those 2 friends died in Vietnam because some didn't ask questions till later on, come to find out that the whole war was over a bs story. But we are the nutjobs for not believing everything the government tells us.
That's funny, I had a coworker tell me the same thing about you. They can't believe a guy that went to fight a war based on a government lie and staged false flag attack. He even watched friends die, and
actually still believes the official government line. He wondered, if going off to war based on lies doesn't convince a person their government lies to them - will anything?
That's funny, I had a coworker tell me the same thing about you. They can't believe a guy that went to fight a war based on a government lie and staged false flag attack. He even watched friends die, and actually still believes the official government line. He wondered, if going off to war based on lies doesn't convince a person their government lies to them - will anything?
If only there were actual history books with the FACTS on this subject... Oh wait... there are, people just refuse to read them.
US involvement in Vietnam... ~ During his career in China and Southeast Asia, American U.S. Army lieutenant colone Archimedes Patti met Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Viet Minh and future leader and national hero of North Vietnam. In later interviews Patti explained that his mission in Vietnam was to establish an intelligence network but not to assist the French in anyway as they attempted to re-gain control over their former colony. Archimedes, did, from a distance, help organize, train and equip the fledgling Vietnamese forces Ho was uniting and marshaling against the Japanese and worked closely with Ho Chi Minh and commented on his early drafts of a Vietnamese constitution.
~ September 26, 1945 - The first American death in Vietnam occurs, during the unrest in Saigon, as OSS officer Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey is killed by Viet Minh guerrillas who mistook him for a French officer.
~ July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
~ American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.
~ September 27, 1950 - The U.S. establishes a Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) in Saigon to aid the French Army.
~ January 20, 1953 - Dwight D. Eisenhower, former five-star Army general and Allied commander in Europe during World War II, is inaugurated as the 34th U.S. President. During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam. To justify America's financial commitment, Eisenhower will cite a 'Domino Theory' in which a Communist victory in Vietnam would result in surrounding countries falling one after another like a "falling row of dominoes."
~ January 1955 - The first direct shipment of U.S. military aid to Saigon arrives. The U.S. also offers to train the fledgling South Vietnam Army.
~ October 26, 1955 - The Republic of South Vietnam is proclaimed with Diem as its first president. In America, President Eisenhower pledges his support for the new government and offers military aid.
~ July 8, 1959 - Two U.S. military advisors, Maj. Dale Buis and Sgt. Chester Ovnand, are killed by Viet Minh guerrillas at Bien Hoa, South Vietnam. They are the first American deaths in the Second Indochina War which Americans will come to know simply as The Vietnam War.
~ January 20, 1961- John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty." Privately, outgoing President Eisenhower tells him "I think you're going to have to send troops..." to Southeast Asia.
~ May 1961 -President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas.
October 1961 - To get a first-hand look at the deteriorating military situation, top Kennedy aides, Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow, visit Vietnam. "If Vietnam goes, it will be exceedingly difficult to hold Southeast Asia," Taylor reports to the President and advises Kennedy to expand the number of U.S. military advisors and to send 8000 combat soldiers. The number of military advisors sent by Kennedy will eventually surpass 16,000.
~February 6, 1962 - MACV, the U.S. Military Assistance Command for Vietnam, is formed. It replaces MAAG-Vietnam, the Military Assistance Advisory Group which had been established in 1950.
~November 24, 1963 - President Johnson declares he will not "lose Vietnam". By year's end, there are 16,300 American military advisors in South Vietnam which received $500 million in U.S. aid during 1963.
~ August 7, 1964 - In response to the two incidents involving the Maddox and Turner Joy, the U.S. Congress, at the behest of President Johnson, overwhelmingly passes the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution put forward by the White House allowing the President "to take all necessary steps, including the use of armed force" to prevent further attacks against U.S. forces. The Resolution, passed unanimously in the House and 98-2 in the Senate, grants enormous power to President Johnson to wage an undeclared war in Vietnam from the White House.
It's amazing to me how little some on this board actually know about the Vietnam War, or American history in general. Some seem to believe that US involvement in Vietnam began with the Gulf of Tonkin Amendment. Had they read actual history, or even read the newspapers, of incidents at the time, they'd have a much better understanding of our countries involvement in Vietnam or all US conflicts.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
No silly, the US government was involved in Vietnam prior to 1964. The Gulf of Tonkin was the false flag attack that made it possible for the executive branch to set a precisent by passing a resolution that allowed the executive branch to deploy troops into a conventional war without a congressional declaration of war, which also led to the military draft for an undeclared war.
War is a Racket, you should read it. You and Joebxr might think that book is full of "conspiracy"
No silly, the US government was involved in Vietnam prior to 1964. The Gulf of Tonkin was the false flag attack that made it possible for the executive branch to set a precisent by passing a resolution that allowed the executive branch to deploy troops into a conventional war without a congressional declaration of war, which also led to the military draft for an undeclared war.
War is a Racket, you should read it. You and Joebxr might think that book is full of "conspiracy"
The military draft was in place BEFORE the war... and had nothing to do with the Gulf Of Tonkin incident.
I feel like I'm instruction an unwilling class of 5th graders. (Read some history before posting.)
Ready class??? From 1948 until 1973, during both peacetime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means. In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an All-Volunteer military. Mr. Cicero, pay attention!!! Oh, I forgot... Mr Cicero doesn't believe in education. OK Mr. Cicero... you can leave... but some day you will embarrass yourself publicly with your lack of basic facts on US history!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The military draft was in place BEFORE the war... and had nothing to do with the Gulf Of Tonkin incident.
I feel like I'm instruction an unwilling class of 5th graders. (Read some history before posting.)
Ready class??? From 1948 until 1973, during both peacetime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means. In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an All-Volunteer military. Mr. Cicero, pay attention!!! Oh, I forgot... Mr Cicero doesn't believe in education. OK Mr. Cicero... you can leave... but some day you will embarrass yourself publicly with your lack of basic facts on US history!
I wasn't saying the draft didn't exist BEFORE the Vietnam War...I said the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and its authorization to deploy troops into a conventional war LED to the draft while waging an undeclared war. The rapid escalation of troops post 64 into an unpopular undeclared war created the military shortage. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution(which we now know was based on a lie, it never happened) led to the drafting of Americans to fight in an undeclared war. And the u.s. government still wages undeclared wars.
I know you guys would love to try to nit pick a sentence in my post and pull it out of context and spin it and twist it, but the fact remains, YOU WERE DEPLOYED TO A COUNTRY TO FIGHT A CONVENTIONAL WAR(Gulf of Tonkin Resolution gave that authority to the executive branch) WITHOUT A DECLARATION OF WAR. The resolution that authorized that power to the president was the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which was a resolution enacted BASED ON A LIE.
58K Americans dead, 3 million Vietnamese dead, Communist Vietnam won. All in a undeclared war, escalated to a conventional war based on a lie, against a nation that was not a national security threat.
I wasn't saying the draft didn't exist BEFORE the Vietnam War...I said the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and its authorization to deploy troops into a conventional war LED to the draft while waging an undeclared war. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution(which we now know was based on a lie, it never happened) led to the drafting of Americans to fight in an undeclared war. And the u.s. government still wages undeclared wars.
I know you guys would love to try to nit pick a sentence in my post and pull it out of context and spin it and twist it, but the fact remains, YOU WERE DEPLOYED TO A COUNTRY TO FIGHT A CONVENTIONAL WAR(Gulf of Tonkin Resolution gave that authority to the executive branch) WITHOUT A DECLARATION OF WAR. The resolution that authorized that power to the president was the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which was a resolution enacted BASED ON A LIE. 58K Americans dead, 3 million Vietnamese dead, Communist Vietnam won. All in a undeclared war, escalated to a conventional war based on a lie, against a nation that was not a national security threat. Keep those pom poms out boys.
It's very difficult to decipher what you MEANT in your posts... but what YOU SAID (posted) was: I said the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and its authorization to deploy troops into a conventional war LED to the draft while waging an undeclared war.
The Draft was in place, and men were being drafted before the G of T Resolution... men were being drafted during the G of T Resolution, and men were being drafted after the G of T Resolution. So... as you posted the G of T Resolution LED TO THE DRAFT WHILE WAGING AN UNDECLARED WAR... Please explain how the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution "LED TO THE DRAFT" in your post.
Further proof that you slept through 5th grade history class comes in your rebuttal which states: "YOU WERE DEPLOYED TO A COUNTRY TO FIGHT A CONVENTIONAL WAR" Although there were 'conventional battles in the Vietnam War, it was basically an UNCONVENTIONAL WAR, AND SOMETIMES CATEGORIZED AS A GUERRILLA WAR.
As posted above... CIC get a hold of a history book... then read it. You Really Really REALLY NEED IT.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Are you trying to make excuses for the war as if it was justified Box? Face it thousands of troops died because the government lied to us, maybe if more people asked questions the war wouldn't have escalated, maybe this wall could of been engraved with accomplishments instead of the names of the fallen. But hey I guess it was just easier for some to call for the war instead of being labeled a "conspiracy theorist" for asking questions
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Please explain how the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution "LED TO THE DRAFT" in your post.
Further proof that you slept through 5th grade history class comes in your rebuttal which states: "YOU WERE DEPLOYED TO A COUNTRY TO FIGHT A CONVENTIONAL WAR" Although there were 'conventional battles in the Vietnam War, it was basically an UNCONVENTIONAL WAR, AND SOMETIMES CATEGORIZED AS A GUERRILLA WAR.
I'll try one more time...As you listed in the Vietnam timeline in a previous post, you showed the U.S. government was involved in Vietnam in some capacity from 1945 until 1973. From 1945 until 1964 the involvement was as advisors and military aid. The U.S. government did not have U.S. armed forces in country.
In 1964 (As YOU posted in your time line) President Johnson, overwhelmingly passes the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution put forward by the White House allowing the President "to take all necessary steps, including the use of armed force" to prevent further attacks against U.S. forces.
As you will clearly notice in the following graph, the rapid escalation of troop deployment into Vietnam between 1964(the passage of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution) and 1969, is what LED the U.S. government to reinstate the draft. To reiterate, I am fully aware of Selective Services and the government's authority to instate a military draft. The point being made is, prior to 1964 there was no NEED to have a military draft because the government's army was not over extended. The draft only went into effect AFTER the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution(based on an incident that we now know is a lie) to fill for the shortages created by the rapid escalation of deployment into Vietnam that was authorized by the GoT Resolution.
Is that clear enough? Or are you going to pick one sentence out of the entire post and argue it without context? That has been the pattern.
The U.S. government did not have U.S. armed forces in country.
Do you believe these military members were not armed.....bad assumption.
Quoted Text
The point being made is, prior to 1964 there was no NEED to have a military draft
Quoted Text
The draft only went into effect AFTER the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution
2 cousins "drafted" prior to 1964....so how do you explain that?
Look, timelines, historical facts, documents, stupid unexecusable actions by military, etc.........there's a lot to all of what you say and what we say, but we cannot change anything that happened in the past, only try to improve the future. Unfortunately our Government is driven from Political agendas that do not directly affect them, so their decision making process is severly flawed. WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE INTO VIETNAM TO BEGIN WITH, but we did! WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE INTO IRAQ, but we did! WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE INTO AFGHANASTAN AFTER 9/11, but we did. WE COULD HAVE CONDUCTED COVERT ACTIVITIES TO CAPTURE BIN LADEN, IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND BRING HIM TO TRIAL, but we didn't.
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
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