It's not the money that makes it such a bad system it's legislative fear tactics that make it a system of control....
healthcare IS AVAILABLE TO ALL....most by choice/ignorance/laziness.....
health insurance is a fiat system that scares people into allowing dumba$$ statements/legislation that Daddy Bloomberg proposes....
freedom is CHOICE...
1. by choosing to be a couch potatoe makes one sick 2. choosing to be a miner ( because that's what daddy did) can maim/kill you 3. driving while drunk can also maim/kill you or someone else 4. hand gliding can be dangerous 5. rock climbing-getting hurt-then using resources to save one's butt the list is endless...
but the consequences should be such that meet the choice as justice....the government uses coercive measure to get sheople to perform in different pens on the farm.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Obviously that would be determined by doctors using medical knowledge, as to who is in more dire need.
I paid my taxes first so the Mexican dies!
What kind of "me first" attitude is that?
Holy crap.
Have you no faith in the medical profession to treat people fairly if everyone has health care coverage?
If you were visiting your children in France, would you want to be excluded from an organ transplant due to not having paid into the system?
Or would you rather be treated fairly and equally on an as needed, most severe cases first, basis?
What is "fairly"? How is it determined? It isn't determined by the medical professionals, it is determined by the political appointed bureaucrats running the bureaucracy that pays the doctor the money for his/her services.
I get confused about your socialized freedom...On one hand you want to move freely with no borders and very little laws, on the other hand, you want to give your freedom to a government run medical bureaucracy filled with politically appointed bureaucrats, and trust them with making life or death decisions for you.
I don't have a "me first" attitude. I am a person that believes that I am free to purchase the medical care I can afford and the doctors get paid the market value for their talent and skill. Just like I am free to purchase a car, it doesn't mean I am entitled to a Mercedes. I also don't believe everybody should be entitled to a car, and the only option everybody has is a blue Honda Civic because that is what the social automobile system dictates.
I guess if I have a "me first" attitude, then you must have a "you're next" attitude. Meaning you will sit and wait your turn while the government bureaucracy running the medical system in whatever country you are in decides your fate. Me on the other hand, I believe in a freedom to shop around(and yes, crossing borders if necessary) to find the best service I can afford.
I don't consider my belief in paying for my life necessities and medical care with my own money so nobody else has to pay for me is greedy. I also don't consider expecting somebody else to pay for my life necessities and medical care as me being unselfish. Actually, I think the exact opposite.
I think each person should be responsible for themselves....healthcare is like hunting/gathering....
there is ALWAYS someone 'above' 'first' 'triaged' etc etc.....
healthcare is NOT health insurance
choice choice choice....participating in a fiat system makes everyone (even if there is a purported "everyone is covered") think their illness is more important than another's illness...
there is triage in organ transplanting....
there will be triage/limits/closed doors even if national health insurance existed as water does....why? because rivers have dams and human nature happens....
but if you want for 'more better' and have the sweat and back bone to get it,,,then by all means chase it!!!!
[quote= I don't consider my belief in paying for my life necessities and medical care with my own money so nobody else has to pay for me is greedy. I also don't consider expecting somebody else to pay for my life necessities and medical care as me being unselfish. Actually, I think the exact opposite.
[/quote] Yet I don't see you complaining about the socialized military that protects everyone, regardless if they every paid taxes.
The public schooling as well.
Your main issue is that it drives you nuts that the poor are/will be taken care of out of your collective taxes that you voluntarily paid.
Open borders would make everyone who enters new taxpayers.
Do you yell at your insurance company because you have been driving safely and your collective premiums cover 16 year old kids that just learned to drive and pay premiums?
You would happily stand by and watch others suffer as long as you have a full stomach.
That's fine. Choose to not be have admirable qualities.
But should you become disabled and lose your insurance, the rest of us will still take care of you.
It is, in fact, greed that drives you. Every argument that you have presented ends in freeloaders.
Being poor, disabled, unemployed and uneducated aren't freeloading career choices for you to mock and demand we let them suffer.
You have no compassion for Americans that are suffering and you feel cheated that the collective helps them.
Yet your anger is not around when it comes to government sponsorship of corporate welfare.
The banking system bailout was a career choice and thievery by the banking industry.
And once again the government steps in to protect your life savings, by keeping the banking industry afloat.
With money taken from me.
I wouldn't mind, because I understand the massive suffering of regular people that would have occurred as a result of a collapse in the system.
What I object to is having corporate survival ranked a higher priority that basic human needs being met.
You object to basic human needs being met.
That is, in fact, selfish and compassionless.
Not one of the great American virtues.
Attempt to be tolerant and let the basic human needs be met first, then complain about the special interest groups who get handouts.
Then you would come off sounding like a selfish person that hates helping others, because it gets in the way of your desirable capitalist ideas of survival of the wealthiest.
Yet I don't see you complaining about the socialized military that protects everyone, regardless if they every paid taxes.
The public schooling as well.
Yes, I do complain about the socialized military...I is WAY TOO BIG, and it operates WAY beyond the Constitutional intent. There should not be a federal standing army, the military should be a collection of state military guards, we should never wage offensive wars, and all wars should be declared by congress. That is not to mention the military's brain washing techniques used to turn our soldier's minds to mush that I despise, and the propaganda that causes Americans sitting in groups to break into a U-S-A chant at the sight of an oversized flag and a fly-over by our state of the art killing machines.
Now on to public schooling. I think you may have forgotten, but to reiterate, I HATE THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. It is another system designed to control peoples thoughts and actions. It is to create a predictable citizenry. America has dumped trillions of dollars into the public education system over the past 50 years. Yet, people continue to complain about us failing to keep up with other nations in math and sciences, and people believe that the system is broke and failing. WRONG, the system is fine and creating exactly what they want to create. An ignorant population conditioned to be good consumers and accept their station in life working a machine in some factory or pushing papers in some government bureaucracy.
If you take the state's control of the minds of children, and the control of culture through electronic media(propaganda), and now with the control of a person's health care, and combine that with the largest and most ruthless and efficient military the world has ever seen along with the paramilitary domestic police force, you will begin to see AMERICA AINT FREE.
Do you yell at your insurance company because you have been driving safely and your collective premiums cover 16 year old kids that just learned to drive and pay premiums?
...And again, I've stated my position on the insurance industry. It is a racket, it is extortion, it is protection money, and they use the government to mandate you have it in order to obtain certain state licenses.
But should you become disabled and lose your insurance, the rest of us will still take care of you.
It is, in fact, greed that drives you. Every argument that you have presented ends in freeloaders.
Being poor, disabled, unemployed and uneducated aren't freeloading career choices for you to mock and demand we let them suffer.
Unfortunately,the way the system is set up and the socialization of everything makes if nearly impossible for people to take care of themselves. There is so much money in the medical system and so much theft, fraud, and corruption in the system like in Medicaid and Medicare, that it distorts the value of medicine, and that is the reason families do go broke trying to take care of themselves.
And my argument for freeloaders only exist in the social system that treats all non paying customers the same, creating the sense of entitlement we see today. People are not grateful toward the person paying for their medical care, they believe it is owed to them. Many of the "working poor" consume the modern luxuries like flat screen TV's, digital cable, internet, air conditioning, and designer clothes, while other people in society pay for their necessities like food, shelter, and MEDICINE. A good example would be the current Medicaid system that is riddled with fraud. On the other hand, with free markets and limited smaller and more local government involvement, prices will decrease and smaller communities through voluntary charity can manage to care for the poor and indigent and weed out the freeloaders.
You have no compassion for Americans that are suffering and you feel cheated that the collective helps them.
This statement is a fallacy. I have plenty of compassion. My belief in the failure of social medicine doesn't prevent me from helping my neighbor. I would take my shirt off my back to help a person in need.
You are correct in this sense, I WOULDN'T TAKE YOUR SHIRT OFF YOUR BACK TO HELP THAT PERSON.
Yet your anger is not around when it comes to government sponsorship of corporate welfare.
The banking system bailout was a career choice and thievery by the banking industry.
And once again the government steps in to protect your life savings, by keeping the banking industry afloat.
With money taken from me.
I wouldn't mind, because I understand the massive suffering of regular people that would have occurred as a result of a collapse in the system.
My anger isn't around for corporate welfare??? Again - YOU ARE WRONG! I hated the bank bailout, I hated the auto bailout, I hated the stimulus, I hated ALL OF IT. The bank bailout didn't protect MY life savings since you don't know where i have my savings and what I have it in. What the bank bailout did was SAVE THE CORPORATE BANKS. The bank bailout perpetuated the mass suffering and our enslavement to the central bankers and corporate America. Keeping us running on that hamster wheel.
Maybe you like the world banking system, and you thought it was worth saving. NOT ME, LET THE SYSTEM DIE!
This is yet another fallacy. I am not selfish or compassionless, I just object to the means used to meet basic human needs. I, unlike you, believe Americans are compassionate and willing to help their fellow man without the coercion of the armed men from the IRS. You on the other hand do not think Americans can take care of each other without the barrel of a peace officers Glock 22 pointed at their belly, demanding they fork over money.
It is unfortunate L4L, you have such a lack of respect for Americans and their ability to voluntarily help one another in times of need. You my friend think you are the only compassionate person in a country of cruel uncaring Americans.
Yes, I do complain about the socialized military...I is WAY TOO BIG, and it operates WAY beyond the Constitutional intent. ...
Now on to public schooling. I think you may have forgotten, but to reiterate, I HATE THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. ...
If you take the state's control of the minds of children, and the control of culture through electronic media(propaganda), and now with the control of a person's health care, and combine that with the largest and most ruthless and efficient military the world has ever seen along with the paramilitary domestic police force, you will begin to see AMERICA AINT FREE.
...And again, I've stated my position on the insurance industry. It is a racket, it is extortion, ...
Unfortunately,the way the system is set up and the socialization of everything makes if nearly impossible for people to take care of themselves. There is so much money in the medical system and so much theft, fraud, and corruption in the system like in Medicaid and Medicare, that it distorts the value of medicine, and that is the reason families do go broke trying to take care of themselves.
And my argument for freeloaders only exist in the social system that treats all non paying customers the same, creating the sense of entitlement we see today. ...with free markets and limited smaller and more local government involvement, prices will decrease and smaller communities through voluntary charity can manage to care for the poor and indigent and weed out the freeloaders.
My anger isn't around for corporate welfare??? Again - YOU ARE WRONG! ...
This is yet another fallacy. I am not selfish or compassionless, I just object to the means used to meet basic human needs. I, unlike you, believe Americans are compassionate and willing to help their fellow man without the coercion of the armed men from the IRS. You on the other hand do not think Americans can take care of each other without the barrel of a peace officers Glock 22 pointed at their belly, demanding they fork over money.
It is unfortunate L4L, you have such a lack of respect for Americans and their ability to voluntarily help one another in times of need. You my friend think you are the only compassionate person in a country of cruel uncaring Americans.
Very good replies to all topics, thank you.
I agree with nearly everything that you believe in. I just don't see society accepting a total lack of social programs, therefore I have learned to accept the minimal ones to keep Americans living safe , educated, housed and health care for anyone who can't afford it, and protest the rest.
No eligible candidates exist with similar beliefs.
Ron Paul has some good ideas, but he's too much of an extremist to ever get elected.
I still fail to see why free travel must be sacrificed because we have social programs. That was the original discussion.
Nothing would change at all except the thousands of gun toting border freaks would need to get jobs that produce goods or services.
All new persons entering would immediately become taxpayers.
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