Talk about changing facts to fit your agenda. This was voter fraud. Everybody but you recognize this as voter fraud. You like changing the definition.
Since Cicero ( and apparently others) are ignorant of the difference between voter and election fraud, there is some confusion on the issue. (Cic seems to want everyone to use his view, that they are the same thing.)
What’s the difference between “voter fraud” and “election fraud”? Fraud can take two different forms in elections.
Persons who alter the record of votes that have been cast, commit one type of fraud in elections. This is “election fraud”. This fraud includes removing ballots, or adding ballots to the record that were never cast, or otherwise altering the record of votes actually cast. This type of fraud is committed with intent, and has resulted in “stolen” elections.
An individual who casts an illegal vote commits “voter fraud”. Someone who is too young to vote; someone who is not a citizen; someone who is not allowed by the state to vote because of punishment for a felony conviction not served; someone who claims to be someone they are not; someone who seeks to vote more than once in an election; … someone who does any of these things and casts a vote, commits “voter fraud”. The difference is that “voter fraud” occurs one vote at a time. It does not even have to involve criminal intent. “Election fraud”, on the other hand, is a concerted effort to significantly change the vote totals, and thus alter the outcome and steal the election.
( I spend so many posts educating Cicero that I should be getting private tutor wages)
In any event... A Voter ID Law is aimed at VOTER FRAUD (which seldom happens) A Voter ID LAW has no effect on ELECTION FRAUD (which is quite common.)
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
total of four Democratic officials and political operatives have now pleaded guilty to voter fraud-related felony charges in an alleged scheme to steal a New York election.
We'll address Cicero's first line of his post above.
The example is wrongly named Voter Fraud, when it is actually Election Fraud. It's an easy mistake and both types of fraud are often lumped to be the same thing... but they are not Why would this reporter make such a foolish mistake? I wondered until I looked at the source... FoxSnooze!!! (and we all know how "accurate" FoxSnooze is)
FoxNews, the Republican Broadcasting Corporation, is promoting all election irregularities as if they were Voter Fraud to push their vote disenfranchisement agenda... It appears to have worked as planned on poor ole' Cicero, who was sucked in by the story.
Sorry Cic... wrong again.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Hey Box, here are some more local news sources that need to adopt YOUR definition of election fraud. Remember, if the facts don't fit the agenda -REDEFINE THE FACTS.
Another indicted in Troy voter fraud scandal TROY -Yet another member of the Troy City Council was indicted in the voter fraud scandal. Special Prosecutor Trey Smith says, this will be the final indictment in his very long investigation. http://wnyt.com/article/stories/S2449474.shtml?cat=300
Troy city council president indicted on voter fraud; three plead guilty to involvement in scandal TROY — City Council President Clement Campana was indicted on five felonies and one misdemeanor Tuesday for his allegedly defrauding voters during the 2009 Working Families Party primary. http://saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/21/news/doc4ef1f3f649de9801728371.txt
the leaders/media are using the term voter fraud......it's election fraud when organized by leaders.....to have 'voter fraud' it would have to occur individually, person by person.....could the 2 be happening at the same time? HOLY CHADS BATMAN....IT IS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME,,,TOGETHER!!!!!
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
They are casting votes for people through absentee ballots because there is no way to verify the identification of the person submitting the ballot. It is voter fraud, it's a party operative forging a ballot.
Remember the story and video of Jimmy Olsen wannabe James O’Keefe’s team of self-righteous idiots trying to pull off a sting by using the names of (supposedly) deceased voters to prove (non-existent) voter fraud at the polls? And remember how that triggered an investigation? And remember how they could face criminal charges for posing as these people in order to get ballots using false names?
Well, he failed at proving voter fraud. But he succeeded in committing voter fraud.
Oops.
O’Keefe’s stooge tried to get a ballot under the name Robert Beaulieu. Well, as it turns out, 84-year-old Robert P. Beaulieu died a few months ago. However, registered Democrat Robert William Beaulieu is 23 and is alive and kicking. And Robert W. was the name under which Mr. Impersonator received a ballot.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Well, he failed at proving voter fraud. But he succeeded in committing voter fraud.
Oops.
O’Keefe’s stooge tried to get a ballot under the name Robert Beaulieu. Well, as it turns out, 84-year-old Robert P. Beaulieu died a few months ago. However, registered Democrat Robert William Beaulieu is 23 and is alive and kicking. And Robert W. was. the name under which Mr. Impersonator received a ballot.
Can you explain how O'Keef attempting to cast a ballot for a registered voter is considered voter fraud, but when Troy democrats succeed at casting ballots for registered voters is "election fraud"
Can you explain how O'Keef attempting to cast a ballot for a registered voter is considered voter fraud, but when Troy democrats succeed at casting ballots for registered voters is "election fraud"
If I show up at your local polling place, tell them that My Name IS Cicero... I sign your name, and vote as if I were you... that is "voter fraud".
If I am an election official. I grab a bunch of absentee ballots, fill them out and enter them into the total ballot for my candidate... That is "election fraud."
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
If I am an election official. I grab a bunch of absentee ballots, fill them out and enter them into the total ballot for my candidate... That is "election fraud."
If that was the case in Troy, I might agree. But the fact is, they were officials of the DEMOCRAT PARTY, they did NOT work for the board of elections. Members of the Democrat Party grabbed a bunch of ballots, forged the signature and tried to pass them legit votes in order to sway an election.
Sorry Box, no matter how many times you attempt to redefine voter fraud, it seems as the facts continue to get in the way. Those pesky facts.
Quoted Text
Kansas combined a voter-ID requirement in its new election law with a change to its absentee-ballot procedures. If you want to vote in person in Kansas, you now have to show a photo ID, and if you request an absentee ballot, you have to provide either a copy of your photo ID or the driver’s license number from the ID. That helps confirm that the registered voter — not some political operative like Anthony DeFiglio — actually requested the absentee ballot.
If that was the case in Troy, I might agree. But the fact is, they were officials of the DEMOCRAT PARTY, they did NOT work for the board of elections. Members of the Democrat Party grabbed a bunch of ballots, forged the signature and tried to pass them legit votes in order to sway an election.
Sorry Box, no matter how many times you attempt to redefine voter fraud, it seems as the facts continue to get in the way. Those pesky facts.
Did these people show up at the polls, pretend to be these voters, then vote??? or Did these people request absentee ballots in some one else's name, then vote with these ballots??? In both cases the answer is no. If they did it would have been voter fraud.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Did these people request absentee ballots in some one else's name, then vote with these ballots???
In which I respond:
Quoted Text
Brian Suozzo's absentee ballot application claimed that he was "at home recovering from medical procedure," which he told us was not true.
"Someone took my signature and voted with it and I feel extremely violated," Suozzo said when Fox News first broke the story nationally in 2009. "The whole thing seems dirty to me."
Jessica Boomhower's absentee ballot application falsely claimed that she was in Boston.
"I can't believe they thought they would get away with this," she told Fox News. "I didn't get to cast my vote on my own. ... They're corrupt. I am sure this goes on a lot in politics, but it's very rare that they do get caught."
Two of the ballot applications claimed that the voters were unavailable, because they were supposedly on a "bus trip to casino." Smith, at one point during the two-year long investigation, even obtained court orders to take DNA samples from five of the seven Democratic members of the Troy City Council. The goal was to try and compare the samples to any DNA evidence found on the absentee ballot envelopes.
No Republicans were implicated in the alleged conspiracy, but one political operative claimed that such voter fraud occurs "on both sides of the aisle."
In November 2009, Democratic operative Anthony DeFiglio told New York State police investigators that faking absentee ballots was a commonplace and accepted practice in political circles, all intended to swing an election.
In November 2009, Democratic operative Anthony DeFiglio told New York State police investigators that faking absentee ballots was a commonplace and accepted practice in political circles, all intended to swing an election.
Fakiing absentee ballots is election fraud. And election fraud is all too common.
But, you still avoid the main part of the issue... A voter ID law would not have stopped these Troy officials from committing Election Fraud.
Why Cicero can't seem to understand Voter Fraud:
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
But, you still avoid the main part of the issue... A voter ID law would not have stopped these Troy officials from committing Election Fraud.
Quoted Text
Kansas combined a voter-ID requirement in its new election law with a change to its absentee-ballot procedures. If you want to vote in person in Kansas, you now have to show a photo ID, and if you request an absentee ballot, you have to provide either a copy of your photo ID or the driver’s license number from the ID. That helps confirm that the registered voter — not some political operative like Anthony DeFiglio — actually requested the absentee ballot.
So box's conclusion is...There is NO SOLUTION TO FORGING ABSENTEE BALLOTS. Accept apparently in Kansas, where they recognize the problem and put safeguards in place to prevent it.
If I am an election official. I grab a bunch of absentee ballots, fill them out and enter them into the total ballot for my candidate... That is "election fraud."
Box screwed up in his argument when he thought it was "election officials" grabbing ballots. Then when I pointed out it wasn't, it was party operatives, the argument changed again.
Impersonating a voter, whether it is at the polling location or through absentee ballot - IT IS STILL CONSIDERED VOTER FRAUD.
If Troy had a Voter ID law... The same officials would have forged the absentee ballots, and included them in with the legal vote totals. They didn't try to pass themselves off as the actual voter... they just stole their ballots and entered them.
Consider this... a overseas voter in person, shows up at the Troy election board and legally applies for an absentee ballot, AND SHOWS HIS VOTER ID.... Then Troy officials mark this ballot and drop it in the election box full of absentee ballots... Voter ID but still Election Fraud. Nothing would have changed in Troy if they had a Voter ID Law.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
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