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Calif. court ruling revives gay marriage debate
Opponents say decision will spur Hispanic Catholics, evangelicals
BY ERIC GORSKI The Associated Press

    For conservative Christian activists, this month’s California Supreme Court ruling legalizing gay marriage provides an opportunity to rekindle interest in an issue that has fallen well behind the price of gas in the national consciousness.
    But it won’t be easy, and not just because of pressing secular issues like the housing downturn and an unpopular war in Iraq.
    Voices within evangelicalism are pushing for a broader agenda, and evidence suggests younger evangelicals are more accepting of gays and lesbians. Meanwhile, anti-gay marriage amendments are on the ballot in only a few states and the issue doesn’t play to presumptive GOP presidential nominee John McCain’s strengths.
    Yet gay marriage opponents say the California ruling will help them broaden their religious coalitions to include more Hispanic Catholics and evangelicals.
    The ruling, they say, made their argument for them: Constitutional measures are needed to prevent judges from subverting the will of the people and reinventing a sacred institution they believe is central to society’s well-being and part of God’s design.
    “I think the California decision does refocus our movement on the threat of marriage being redefined,” said John Stemberger, who as head of the Florida Family Policy Council is supporting a proposed amendment in that swing state that would define marriage as between one man and one woman. It would prohibit civil unions providing the same benefits of marriage.
    Unless a stay is granted on the California ruling, gender-neutral marriage certificates will begin being issued June 17. Acceptance of gay marriage is growing in the state, with a Field Poll released Wednesday showing that 51 percent of respondents support legalizing same-sex marriage and 42 percent oppose it.
    Another fight is brewing in New York, where opposition is forming to Gov. David Paterson’s new directive to state agencies to recognize gay marriages legally performed in other states and countries. Gay marriage is not legal in that state, and its highest court has said such unions can be legalized only by the legislature.
    Gay marriage erupted as a national issue in 2003, when the Massachusetts Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage there. The next year, 13 states approved amendments prohibiting gay marriage.
    Conservative Christian groups credited the marriage measures with inspiring “values voter” turnout and helping re-elect President Bush. Several studies disputed that, showing partisanship, the Iraq War and national security were far more important factors nationally.
    Other research, however, found that in Ohio, a battleground state that went for Bush, a successful amendment banning gay marriage did move votes toward the president.
    Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University political scientist who reached that conclusion in his study of the Ohio vote, said that four years later, things have changed: Far fewer states have a marriage issue on the ballot, conservatives’ “raw fear” of gay marriage has declined, and McCain opposes a federal constitutional amendment to bar gay marriage, which Bush supported.
    “I think in a year of war and a weak economy — not to mention race as a campaign issue — that this will not be nearly as big as before,” Wilcox said.
    McCain has said he thinks defi ning marriage should be decided by states, and in 2006 he supported an anti-gay marriage amendment in his home state of Arizona.
    It failed, the first such amendment to do so. A bill that would to return the question to the November ballot is pending before the Republican-controlled Senate.
    Already, activists in Arizona are looking to California to make their case a second time. In California, passage of the initiative would overrule the Supreme Court decision.
    “The California decision shows exactly why the people of Arizona should vote for a marriage defi nition in November and not leave it for judges or politicians,” said Cathi Herrod of the Center for Arizona Policy, an affiliate of the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family.
    California is the third state gearing up for gay marriage amendment campaign this fall, significant because some analysts think McCain can challenge the Democratic nominee there.
    “The malaise that some [conservative Christians] felt about the upcoming election has in large part been wiped away by the California decision,” said Mathew Staver of the conservative Christian legal group Liberty Counsel, who is raising money to overturn the California decision. He also co-authored the proposed Florida amendment.
    The California decision not only deepens the resolve of religious conservatives, Staver said, but should anger “people who might not otherwise get involved in values. Most people do not respond well to having four judges determine the definition of marriage.”
    In Florida and elsewhere, efforts to broaden support to include more Hispanic Christians are intensifying. The Virginia-based Alliance for Marriage Foundation is uniting Hispanic evangelical and Catholic leaders to “stand up for marriage” at rallies this summer in Denver and Minneapolis during the Democratic and Republican National Conventions, respectively.
    “We believe that demographically, the Latino community is very much the future of our cause,” said Matt Daniels, the foundation’s president. “Because they are an immigrant community, they have largely been silent in the debate.”
    Nearly nine in 10 Hispanic evangelicals oppose legalizing gay marriage while slightly more than half of Hispanic Catholics are opposed, according to a survey last year by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.
    Polls also show, however, that younger evangelicals are more accepting of homosexuality than previous generations. The Rev. Adam Hamilton, pastor of 15,000-member United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in suburban Kansas City, Mo., said he is witnessing a shift that could alter the conventional wisdom about marriage amendments turning out evangelical votes.
    “There are an increasing number of people who are trying to fi nd a third way between the left, which tends to discard biblical teaching regarding sex outside marriage, and those who have made homosexuality the central concern of the Christian faith,” said Hamilton, who describes himself as evangelical. “They are trying to see the gray between the black and white.”
    The California decision also comes as a growing chorus of evangelical leaders say the movement’s agenda should broaden to include poverty, global warming and AIDS.
    Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., is among a group of leaders who this month released “An Evangelical Manifesto,” a document calling for “an expansion of our concern beyond single-issue politics, such as abortion and marriage.”
    Before the California decision, Mouw said gay marriage was on the margins of the evangelical agenda. Now, he predicted, it will move back to the center.
    Mouw said he worries both about evangelicals’ angry rhetoric and gay rights supporters who portray gay marriage foes as homophobic and the equivalent of racist, ignoring the moral and religious dimensions.
    “The more it looks like this agenda is going to carry the day nationally, the more evangelicals are going to be pushed back into a movement of very narrow focus that a lot of us have been trying to get out of,” Mouw said. “For those of us who are trying to broaden the dialogue, (the California decision) was not the right thing to have happen.”

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Don Grundmann, left, an opponent of same-sex marriage rights, argues with gay rights supporter Jeffrey Auman outside the California Supreme Court in San Francisco in this March 4 file photo. For conservative Christian activists, the court’s ruling legalizing same-sex marriage provides an opportunity to rekindle interest in an issue that has fallen well behind the price of gas in the national consciousness.

I dont care about the sodomy, mommy, daddy whatever----

it was once said......"....be fruitful and multiply....."  ".....as numerous as the grains of sand...."    ---who said these truths???---Go ahead make a destiny for yourself, we are certainly not all little angels,,,the bell has rung, let the games begin(rule #1: science not included)

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Gays get dream of marriage, but also nightmare of divorce
Susan Estrich is a nationally syndicated columnist.
Susan Estrich

    “Today is a great day not only for every lesbian and gay couple who wants to get married, but for every Californian who believes in fairness and equal opportunity for all,” said Judy Appel, executive director of Our Family Coalition, a group that advocates for same-sex couples with children, in response to the California Supreme Court majority’s refusal to delay its ruling on gay marriage. As a result of that refusal, California counties have until June 17 to start issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
    It is also a great day for California divorce lawyers.
    Business is going to boom, no offense to anyone.
    Don’t get me wrong. I believe anyone who wants to get married should have that right, without regard to the gender of the two people involved. In that respect, I’m actually part of a new majority in California. Polls taken since last month’s landmark state Supreme Court decision have found that for the first time, a majority now supports gay marriage. That bodes well for not overruling the Court’s decision when the issue is put to voters on the ballot this fall.
    But the problem with marriage, whether gay or straight, is that it is way too easy to get married and painfully difficult to get divorced. You can get married in a minute. The fee is minimal. The forethought required is nonexistent.
    Divorce doesn’t work that way. The only winners in divorce tend to be the lawyers. Marriage is a fantasy. Divorce tends to be a fullblown nightmare. Maybe now that gays are going to be stuck in that particular dark night with the rest of us, they can help us figure out a better way out of it.
    Divorce is one of the few situations where the incentives for the lawyers are totally and completely at odds with the interests of their clients. The best thing for clients is almost always to settle, the faster and more amicably the better, particularly when there are children involved. Divorce is a zero sum game, and the more money you spend dividing the pie, the less there is to go around in the end.
    If the parties can’t reach an agreement, a judge has to come up with one for them. But there’s nothing inherent in going to law school or being a lawyer that gives you the wisdom of Solomon, which is what is required. Accountants, shrinks and financial planners are all better trained to address the issues in divorce than lawyers and judges, but the buck stops with the judge.
    There really is very little “law” in divorce law. There’s almost never a “right” answer, only a long list of wrong ones. The idea that governs much of contract law — that you are trying to discern and enforce the intent of the parties — doesn’t work in divorce, since parties getting married never intend to get divorced, even though half of them do.
    Every year, I ask my students how many of them plan to get married, and almost every hand goes up. And how many of you plan to get divorced, I always ask, and all the hands go down. No one plans to get in car accidents, either, but at least most of us buy insurance to protect us if we do. No one sells divorce insurance because no one would buy it, and you couldn’t make much money selling it even if they did. You’d have to pay off too often.
    What’s worse is that most people aren’t in their right minds when they’re going through a divorce. They’re emotional, not rational. They want to get even or get back, or they’re so guilty they want to give up, which they then regret, leading them to want to get back what they gave up. Clients in business disputes tend, at least much of the time, to be rational in assessing the costs of fighting and the advantages of settling. Clients in divorces are more like first-time homebuyers, or sellers, who take everything personally and are willing to let the deal go south and lose the house of their dreams because they’re attached to the refrigerator, or the other side is.
    One of my friends, who started out doing divorce work and gave it up even though it was very lucrative because of how awful it was, says it’s the one area of law where you have clients who are more interested in hurting the other side than helping themselves. I’ll take criminal defense any day.
    Ms. Appel is a mother of two who plans to marry her partner of 16 years. Hopefully, with 16 years together, which is longer than most marriages last, the ceremony won’t jinx it. But just in case, there will be plenty of lawyers waiting.

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There really is very little “law” in divorce law. There’s almost never a “right” answer, only a long list of wrong ones. The idea that governs much of contract law — that you are trying to discern and enforce the intent of the parties — doesn’t work in divorce, since parties getting married never intend to get divorced, even though half of them do.

I say have at it.....cant do any better than the rest of the stats(or so we are told)......

what would the blessing be????---"go forth and.....what?...multiply?....last forever?....what?

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Gay-marriage ruling could boost California economy
The Associated Press

    SAN FRANCISCO — The flowers have been selected, the Veterans’ Memorial Center has been booked and the three-piece band has been chosen. The e-invitations have gone out and relatives are fl ying in. The brides — and there will be two of them — might not have time to buy something new to wear, but that’s OK.
    Shelly Bailes and Ellen Pontac, who have been together for 34 years, do not want to wait a day longer than necessary to tie the knot now that California’s Supreme Court has legalized gay marriage. They had five weeks to plan a June 21 reception for 250 people.
    “We should have been ready, but we weren’t,” Pontac said with a laugh. “We are taking care of all the details we can, and no matter what happens, we know we will have good company and good music and food and drink.”
    The gay marriage ruling could give a big, sudden boost to California’s sputtering economy, with thousands of same-sex couples from across the nation expected to converge on the state when the decision takes effect Monday. Hotels, restaurants, florists and other wedding services are reporting a flurry of business.
    “The good news for California is that in the face of probably the worst budget problems the state has ever faced, the LGBT wedding industry is going to be a financial shot in the arm,” Jeffrey Pang, mayor of West Hollywood, a popular destination for gay travelers in Southern California.
    A study issued this week by UCLA’s Williams Institute for Sexual Orientation and the Law projected that gay men and lesbians will spend $684 million on cakes, photographers and other services over the next three years unless voters reverse the high court’s ruling in the fall.
    The researchers found that about half of the state’s more than 100,000 same-sex couples will get married during the next three years, and an additional 68,000 out-of-state couples will travel to California to exchange vows. The study estimated that over that period, gay weddings will generate $64 million in tax revenue for the state, $9 million in marriage-license fees for counties and some 2,200 jobs.
    Rena Puebla, who makes wedding-cake figures that can be customized to come in bride-bride and groom-groom pairs, said she has gone from selling 50 a day to 150 since the May 15 ruling.
    “It’s unbelievable,” said Puebla, whose Costa Mesa company, Renellie International, sells the cake toppers online. “People are just so excited that there’s something like this out there for them.”
    Puebla’s company designs a variety of single figurines and then pairs them according to the customer’s wishes. Some bride figurines come in a tailored skirt and tuxedo jacket instead of a big gown. “People can do whatever they want because it’s not already stuck together,” Puebla said.
    The possibility that the window for weddings could close after the November election — when a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage will appear on the ballot — has added to the rush to wed. Also, the prospect of getting hitched became even more inviting when New York state announced recently that it would recognize gay marriages performed in California and other jurisdictions.
    Unlike Massachusetts, the only other state where gay couples can wed, California does not have a residency requirement for marriage licenses.
    Gay-friendly destinations such as West Hollywood, Palm Springs and San Francisco are not the only places saying “We do” to couples planning long-awaited weddings. The California Travel and Tourism Commission posted a special gay wedding page on its Web site last week listing spots in Napa County, Yosemite National Park and comparatively conservative Orange County that are offering wedding and honeymoon packages.
    Kathryn Hamm, president of Washington-based gayweddings. com, an online retailer and wedding planner, said the number of businesses submitting listings for her gay-friendly vendor’s directory has tripled in the past three weeks.
    “Vendors are absolutely looking to get their services out there,” said Hamm, who has been working overtime to get invitations printed for couples planning late-summer and early-fall weddings. “Some identify as gay and lesbian and have been serving the community for a while, and some are straight and longtime supporters. But they have all said how excited they are about how about the recent development from a social justice perspective.”
    The timely economic infusion has been noted by Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who twice vetoed bills that would have legalized gay marriage but has supported the court’s decision.
    “I hope that California’s economy is booming because everyone is going to come here and get married,” Schwarzenegger told the California Chamber of Commerce.
    Brian Siewert, co-owner of the Sonoma Orchid Inn in Guerneville, a small town in Sonoma County wine country, said the region is already home to a lot of gay-owned and gay-operated businesses, including his own, which he runs with his partner.     

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Gay-marriage ruling could boost California economy

In America anything/one can be bought........shame shame shame......where is the absolute truth????

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Gay couples
rush to marry
in California
    SAN FRANCISCO — Serenaded by a gay men’s chorus, showered with rose petals and toasted with champagne, hundreds of tearful same-sex couples got married across the state Tuesday in what some are calling California’s new Summer of Love.
    Wearing everything from Tshirts to tuxedos and lavish gowns, they rushed down to county clerks’ offices to obtain marriage licenses and exchange vows on the first full day that gay marriage became legal in California by order of the state’s highest court. They were joined by jubilant crowds that came to witness the event.
    George Takei, who played Sulu on the original “Star Trek,” beamed as he and his partner of 21 years, Brad Altman, obtained one of the new gender-neutral marriage licenses — with the words “Party A” and “Party B” instead of “bride” and “groom” — at the West Hollywood City Hall. They are planning a September wedding.

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California’s new Summer of Love.

I'm sure they will be excited to go on their honeymoons to the caribbean or mexico or canada after they get fingerprinted for the special NYS drivers license--that will be the only way they are recognized......what other stats will be 'listed' on this fancy passport/license???? gender,marital status,parent etc......

test those waters for us too----I beg you----peace and love to ya'll

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Bishops endorse gay marriage ban
    SAN FRANCISCO — California’s Roman Catholic bishops are urging parishioners to support a fall ballot measure that seeks to overturn the court ruling that legalized same-sex marriage in the state.
    The California Catholic Conference issued a statement strongly encouraging parishioners “to provide both the financial support and the volunteer efforts needed for the passage of Proposition 8.”
    In the statement, the bishops say their position is based partly on the presumption that while all people deserve to be treated with dignity, being raised by a married mother and father is “the ideal for the well being of children.”
    The conference’s executive director said the bishops plan to develop materials that parish priests can use to address the topic between now and election day.

...and in comes the (uncostitutional) IRS.

You got that right Kevin.....more $$ to collect over nothing...whether heterosexual or homosexual.....either way it always end with $$....too bad the IRS doesn't understand the need for procreation and expanding tax bases.......duh.........very short sighted if ya ask me.....but, then again, people still have an instinctual need to 'make babies'.....how they are raised wont matter......as long as $$ moves.......

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/05/voters-decide-hot-button-issues-nationwide/

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California Voters Pass Ban on Gay Marriage
California voters pass Proposition 8, overturning a state Supreme Court decision that granted gay couples the right to wed.

AP
Wednesday, November 05, 2008

LOS ANGELES -- California voters have adopted a constitutional amendment outlawing same-sex marriage, overturning the state Supreme Court decision that gave gay couples the right to wed just months ago.

The passage of Proposition 8 in Tuesday's election represents a crushing political defeat for gay rights activists, who had hoped public opinion on the contentious issue had shifted enough since the state overwhelmingly passed an earlier gay marriage ban in 2000 to help them defeat the measure.

"We pick ourselves up and trudge on," Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said early Wednesday when it appeared the measure was headed for passage. "There has been enormous movement in favor of full equality in eight short years. That is the direction this is heading, and if it's not today or it's not tomorrow, it will be soon."

With almost all precincts reporting, election returns showed the measure winning with 52 percent. With election officials and others estimating 2 million to 3 million provisional and absentee ballots remained to be tallied, leaders of the No on 8 campaign said they were not ready to concede.

"Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome," Geoff Kors, director of Equality California said in a statement Wednesday.

But based on trends and the locations of the votes still outstanding, the margin of support in favor of the initiative appeared secure. The Yes on 8 campaign declared victory just after midnight.

"People believe in the institution of marriage," Frank Schubert, co-manager of the Yes on 8 campaign said. "It's one institution that crosses ethnic divides, that crosses partisan divides. ... People have stood up because they care about marriage and they care a great deal."

Opponents of the gay marriage ban said Wednesday that one legal challenge was filed and others were being prepared.

By changing the state constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman, Proposition 8 overturns the California Supreme Court decision that overturned the 2000 ban and legalized same-sex marriage in the state in mid-June. Since then, an estimated 18,000 gay and lesbian couples, many of them from other states, have been married.

The measure's passage represents a personal loss for couples who still hoped to wed, and casts a shadow of uncertainty on the legal unions of those who already have. Because the initiative holds that only marriage between a man and a woman is recognized in the state, legal experts have said it will have to be resolved in court whether existing gay marriages would be nullified.

Amid uncertainty over when the amendment takes effect, gay and lesbian couples continued seeking marriage licenses throughout the state Wednesday. They were successful in some jurisdictions and not others where county clerks wanted direction before sanctioning any more same-sex unions.

Jake Rowe, 27, and James Eslick, 29, were in the midst of getting married at Sacramento City Hall Wednesday morning when someone from the clerk's office stopped the wedding. The two men had planned to get married next year because "We held in hope that 8 would not pass," Rowe said.

"I'm thoroughly surprised. I thought Californians had come to the point where they realized discrimination wasn't right," he said.

Kate Folmar, a spokeswoman for Secretary of State Debra Bowen, said initiatives typically take effect the day after an election, although the results from Tuesday's races will not be certified until Dec. 13.

Couples who had optimistically made appointments to get hitched at San Francisco City Hall on Wednesday were asked to wait until the clerk's office received guidance from state officials, said county clerk Karen Hong Lee.

"I know what the Constitution says, but with the fact there are some votes still uncounted, we want to make absolutely sure as administrators we are doing our jobs properly," Hong said.

But in Los Angeles, couples still were able to wed -- for now.

Grace Chavez, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County registrar's office in Norwalk, said weddings for gay couples were being performed in first floor chapel. She could not, however, say if there was any last-minute rush of couples trying to marry before the measure is enforced.

Attorney General Jerry Brown has said he thinks the ban would not to couples who tied the knot between mid-June and election day. As for who manage to marry Wednesday, Dana Simas, a spokeswoman for Brown, said "that is an issue that we have not yet decided."

Despite intense disappointment, some newlyweds elected to look on the positive side, taking comfort that millions of Californians had voted to validate their relationships.

"I'm really OK," said Diana Correia, of Berkeley, who married her partner of 18 years, Cynthia Correia, on Sunday in front of the couple's two children and 80 relatives and friends. "I hope the marriage holds, but we are already married in our hearts, so nobody can take that away."

From what I understand, this headline should read..."California Voters Pass Ban on Gay Marriage...again."

They realize they cant afford to support those families too and their benefits.......