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senders
January 23, 2008, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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The most accurate of Plato's writings on Socrates is probably the The Apology. It is Plato's account of Socrates's defense at his trial in 399 BC (the word "apology" comes from the Greek word for "defense-speech" and does not mean what we would think of as an apology). It is clear, however, that Plato dressed up Socrates's speech to turn it into a justification for Socrates's life and his death. In it, Plato outlines some of Socrates's most famous philosophical ideas: the necessity of doing what one thinks is right even in the face of universal opposition, and the need to pursue knowledge even when opposed.  


    Socrates wrote nothing because he felt that knowledge was a living, interactive thing. Socrates' method of philosophical inquiry consisted in questioning people on the positions they asserted and working them through questions into a contradiction, thus proving to them that their original assertion was wrong. Socrates himself never takes a position; in The Apology he radically and skeptically claims to know nothing at all except that he knows nothing. Socrates and Plato refer to this method of questioning as elenchus , which means something like "cross-examination" The Socratic elenchus eventually gave rise to dialectic, the idea that truth needs to be pursued by modifying one's position through questioning and conflict with opposing ideas. It is this idea of the truth being pursued, rather than discovered, that characterizes Socratic thought and much of our world view today. The Western notion of dialectic is somewhat Socratic in nature in that it is conceived of as an ongoing process. Although Socrates in The Apology claims to have discovered no other truth than that he knows no truth, the Socrates of Plato's other earlier dialogues is of the opinion that truth is somehow attainable through this process of elenchus .

   The Athenians, with the exception of Plato, thought of Socrates as a Sophist, a designation he seems to have bitterly resented. He was, however, very similar in thought to the Sophists. Like the Sophists, he was unconcerned with physical or metaphysical questions; the issue of primary importance was ethics, living a good life. He appeared to be a sophist because he seems to tear down every ethical position he's confronted with; he never offers alternatives after he's torn down other people's ideas.  


Ancient Greece Glossary
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Areté  
    He doesn't seem to be a radical skeptic, though. Scholars generally believe that the Socratic paradox is actually Socratic rather than an invention of Plato. The one positive statement that Socrates seems to have made is a definition of virtue (areté): "virtue is knowledge." If one knows the good, one will always do the good. It follows, then, that anyone who does anything wrong doesn't really know what the good is. This, for Socrates, justifies tearing down people's moral positions, for if they have the wrong ideas about virtue, morality, love, or any other ethical idea, they can't be trusted to do the right thing.  


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Sombody
January 25, 2008, 4:12pm Report to Moderator
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I feel compelled to respond with something- Im not sure what exactly- but what does come to mind is a review of one of Plato s books Theatetus- from my sophmore year of college Philoshophy 1A

It explains epistemology or the science of knowledge- how we come to know things-
There were 2 fundemental ideas I remember -

Plato argues - # 1 that a truth is very hard to come by- TRUTH-   something true in under all  cercumstances or conditions  TRUTH VS A TRUE STATEMENT-

True statement  is  true conditionally- an apple is red but only in the light- in a closet it is no longer red

# 2 Everything is not relative( Philosophically at least )  there must be an unchangeing set of values from whcih we  compare- what ever it is we are comparing

So you can take it from there


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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bumblethru
January 25, 2008, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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True statement  is  true conditionally- an apple is red but only in the light- in a closet it is no longer red
Not true! That apple is still a red apple. No matter what.  That would be like saying the sun doesn't exist anywhere at midnight in the northeast. Does it mean that my clothes are not my clothes when they are in my closet?

Okay...so that is my unknowlegable self 'taking it from there'!

Next.......


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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Sombody
January 25, 2008, 5:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bumblethru
Not true! That apple is still a red apple. No matter what.  That would be like saying the sun doesn't exist anywhere at midnight in the northeast. Does it mean that my clothes are not my clothes when they are in my closet?

Okay...so that is my unknowlegable self 'taking it from there'!

Next.......


Absoluutly not true !!!! Color is in the light- not in the objeckt.  Ask Newtion-Do  you have a prism ?- It isnt just semantics-  Your clothing  may be there but the color is gone in the dark.
The pigment on the surface reflects all other colors except the color( which is in the light ) whcih is absorbed by the pigment.

Dont be so quick to say next-

Remember color is in the light-  one more time-" if you take light away" - the apple is no longer red  really -


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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bumblethru
January 26, 2008, 7:15am Report to Moderator
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"Color is a paradox. It exists only in light, which to the human eye seems almost colorless. Without light there can be no color" If this statement is true, then how does then how it is possible to see such a diversity of colors in nature, and how do we, as humans achieve numerous effects by color? To the answer this question we have to understand major elements. They are light, which is the source of color; the object and how it reacts and responds to color; and the eye which is the perceiver of color.

I was miss-reading. The apple is still an apple....just not a red apple.

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Our eyes see the color and transmit the message to the brain. The eye recognizes each color through a three step process. Light is the source of all color. Our source of light is the sun, which we seem to think is colorless, but in reality it is a rainbow of colors. To illustrate how we see red, we will look at an example of a red apple. The first step of the process is when the invisible colors of light shine on the apple. In the second step, the surface of the red apple absorbs all the colored light rays, except for the red ray. The red ray is reflected to the eye. In the third step the eye receives the red light and sends a message toward the brain. The brain deciphers the message, and associates each color with what that color symbolizes.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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senders
January 26, 2008, 9:44am Report to Moderator
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how we come to know things-


And this is how history is written, ad campaigns are spread etc etc.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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