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Gun Control/The Right To Bear Arms
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Admin
March 25, 2008, 3:04am Report to Moderator
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Shadow
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We don't need all the heavy armament, just the right to keep our rifles and handguns, tanks are too hard to hide anyway. Common sense has to enter into this law somewhere and you're right, the heavy armament should be regulated as it has no useful purpose for the average citizen although I'm sure that some people would want it all. Somebody, if you're interested you can buy a 50 caliber rifle with scope capable of shots at 1 mile right now for a mere $10,000.
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Shadow
March 25, 2008, 6:47am Report to Moderator
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I just like knowing that if someone kicks in the door of my home at 2am when the police are just minutes away and the end of my life is just seconds away I can do something about it. As someone once said I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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JoAnn
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Quoted from Shadow
I just like knowing that if someone kicks in the door of my home at 2am when the police are just minutes away and the end of my life is just seconds away I can do something about it. As someone once said I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
This is why we have guns in our home.

Quoted Text
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
I never heard this before, but I love it!

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Sombody
March 25, 2008, 3:17pm Report to Moderator
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JoAnne- I hear what your saying-

I personally keep a 36" machetti in my car ( jeep ) between my seat and the door-  


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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senders
March 25, 2008, 8:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sombody
If  the Second Amendment provides an absolute, constitutional protection for the right to bear arms in order to preserve the power of the people to resist government tyranny, then it must allow individuals to possess bazookas, torpedoes, SCUD missiles and even nuclear warheads, for they, like handguns, rifles and M-16s, are arms.

I mean it is hard to imagine any serious resistance to the military without such arms.


It's more than just resistance to tyranny of the government but an actual belief in our selves of the pioneering american that is our heritage more than anything.....this ideology has been slowly picked off our history.....now all we hear is "I voted them in for that"..."that is their job"..."I shouldn't have to pick lettuce"....etc etc......to a large extent we have become delegaters and not horsemen.....

and yes when push comes to shove a machette(if that is what ya got to work with) is called for in some instances and the 12 outweigh the 6 or 8 if you frequent McDonalds or the candy isle......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Rene
March 25, 2008, 9:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
I personally keep a 36" machetti in my car ( jeep ) between my seat and the door-


Never bring a knife to a gunfight, even if it is 36"...   
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Sombody
March 26, 2008, 2:49am Report to Moderator
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I picked up the machetti while visiting and island off the coast of South America- where just about everyone has one- including children- it is more of a multipurpose tool- perfect for cutting watermellon or making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich-

Applying the  logic of some post-I think the rental agreement for Yates Village should encourage/suggest the residents to get a gun-

This would most certainly lower the crime rate ?

And how about this for personal protection- watch the video-

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/cellgun.asp


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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http://www.timesunion.com
Quoted Text
Learning about lives lost to guns
Albany panel hears about loved ones who became victims of crime


By TIM O'BRIEN, Staff writer
First published: Wednesday, March 26, 2008

ALBANY -- Mothers described the gunfire that killed their children to those attending the first forum on reducing gun violence in the city Tuesday.
The emotional stories brought home the kind of street crime the 13-member Task Force on Gun Violence is seeking to solve.
     
"We need to bring hope back in our children," said resident Barbara Judkins. "There are too many kids out here depressed."
Judkins was among more than 60 people who came to Phillip Livingston Academy to share their views.
County Legislator Wanda Willingham lost her son to street violence 16 years ago and saw another young man killed on the street about six years ago. She said when she recently spoke to Albany High School students, 75 percent in a class said they knew someone who had been shot and 90 percent knew someone who had a gun.
She said her son became involved in illegal activity, so it can happen to anyone's child. "Peer pressure is a terrible thing for these kids," she said. "They need to know a gun, it kills. They need to know that when that gun puts a hole in you, it puts a hole in everyone else in the household too."
Young people often think that being able to flash a gun beneath their shirt keeps them safe, said another parent, Annette DeLavallade.
"Somehow they think that protects them," she said. "The kids don't get it."
Young people in the city need more to do, stronger guidance at home and better education in school to keep them from succumbing to the temptation of street crime, speakers at the forum said.
DeLavallade recommended filming a documentary showing what it is like to be shot and taken to the emergency room where doctors struggle to save lives.
Others praised the gathering for focusing on illegal guns and not legitimate owners of firearms.
"The crimes aren't being committed by legal firearms," said Ralph Passonno. "I ask when you think about the resolution of these problems, that you not punish the law-abiding citizens. The unarmed citizen is a target. The unarmed nation falls to tyranny."
Doreathea Brace said access to illegal guns is too easy.
"I can walk right out of here and buy a gun right now," she said. "That's how easy it is."
Many kids get pulled into selling drugs and carrying guns because their parents are struggling to make ends meet, and they see it as a way to help bring in money, she said. Community programs don't help if work isn't available, she said.
East Greenbush resident Martha Lasher-Warner said the problem of gun violence affects communities other than the cities. Her daughter, Liza, was killed by her estranged husband in 2004 in Princetown, Schenectady County.
"I wish I had the answer how to get the guns out of the wrong hands," she said. "It's a horrible epidemic."
The Common Council approved creating the 13-member task force last July, and the task force met for the first time in November. It was given one year to study gun violence in the city and to make recommendations.
District Attorney David Soares and Police Chief James Tuffey, who are members of the task force, were in attendance.
Task force leaders said the ideas gathered will inform their findings. The members are also studying programs in other cities including Rochester and Baltimore.
"We've received tonight many constructive comments that will make our work easier," said the Rev. Edward B. Smart, a panel leader.
The task meets twice a month and expects to hold more forums. Tim O'Brien can be reached at 454-5092 or by e-mail at tobrien@timesunion.com.
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CRIMINALS will always have guns.......that is why they are criminals......the rest of us just hope for the best......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Shadow
March 26, 2008, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Subject: 2nd Amendment Read



This is somewhat long.  But well worth your time.  Now, I better understand why we are in such a mess, when it comes to gun ownership here in NY.  Joe

(First op-ed in a NY newspaper which brings up the history of the
Sullivan Act.)

http://www.niagaraf allsreporter. com/column357. html

Big Tim Sullivan was a notorious Irish gangster whose mob controlled New
York City south of 14th Street around the turn of the 20th century.
Throwing in his lot with the likes of Monk Eastman, Paul Kelly and
Arnold Rothstein, Sullivan became an expert on that dark nexus where
organized crime and politics consummate their unholy alliance, and soon
became an influential figure in the corrupt Democratic machine there
known as Tammany Hall.

He made the relatively easy transition from dangerous street thug and
political ward heeler to New York state senator first in 1894. He left
Albany in 1903 for a term in the U.S. House of Representatives, and
returned to the legislature in 1909 after complaining that he lacked the
juice in Washington he'd grown accustomed to on his home turf.

In 1911, the Irish and Jewish mobsters who put him into office faced a
growing problem -- the Italians. Immigrant mafiosi newly arrived from
Sicily and Naples were horning in on what had once been their exclusive
domain. Gunfights on the Lower East Side and the neighborhood around
Mulberry Street that was to become Little Italy grew more and more
frequent, and it was getting so that you couldn't even shake down a
barber shop or a greengrocer without some guy fresh off the boat taking
a shot at you.

Not to worry, Big Tim told the boys. And in 1911, he took care of the
problem.

The Sullivan Act was passed into law in New York state in 1911 and
remains Big Tim's primary legacy. It effectively banned most people from
owning and, especially, carrying handguns. Under the onerous conditions
of the corrupted law, a peaceable citizen of sound mind could apply for
a pistol permit, but if any of a number of elected or appointed
officials objected to its issuance, he or she could be denied the
license. The law remains in effect to this day and has been used as the
basis for gun laws in many other states and municipalities.

One of those is Washington, D.C., which enacted its handgun law in 1973.
Like the Sullivan law, it was written as a "may issue" permit statute,
rather than the more common "must issue" permit statutes of many states.
Under the "may issue" provision, a person can pass a police background
check, take a gun safety course and jump through whatever other hoops
the law requires, and still be turned down for a permit at the
discretion of government officials.

Actual criminals, who have no problem breaking the laws against robbery,
rape and murder, routinely ignore the absurd pistol-permitting process.

Last week, a challenge to the D.C. law wound up being argued before the
United States Supreme Court. The case stemmed from a lawsuit filed by
Dick Anthony Heller, 65, an armed security guard, who sued the district
after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his home for
protection. A lower court threw the D.C. statute out, ruling it to be
unreasonable and in violation of Heller's rights under the Second
Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The district appealed, and for the
first time in our nation's history, the high court is preparing to rule
on what the framers actually meant when they wrote the Second Amendment.

For many, that meaning has long been clear as glass: "A well regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of
the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Two clauses that some smart editor might have made into two sentences --
the first of which calls for the establishment of a "well regulated
militia," thought by most authorities to be the present National Guard,
and the second, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall
not be infringed," which needs no interpretation at all. Beginning in
the 1960s, however, left-leaning legal theorists and postmodern
politicians began putting forth the notion that the Second Amendment had
nothing to do with individual rights, that it instead was intended
simply to make sure that the state-regulated militia members had guns.
This ridiculous reading flew in the face of much that was written by
Jefferson, Washington and the other men of action who bought our
country's independence with blood and ink and gunpowder, but scant
attention was paid.

Guns kill people, the revisionists said. We have the police to protect
us, and the truths of 1776 have no place in 20th century society.

Big Tim Sullivan's law was mimeographed, retyped and copied out by hand,
and sent around to state capitols and city halls around the country,
where politicians -- primarily liberal Democrats -- took up his tainted
cause.

The old gangster would have gotten a laugh had he lived to see the
results of his crooked efforts. But a year after the Sullivan Act was
passed in Albany, he went insane -- the result, it is said, of tertiary
syphilis -- and was placed in a lunatic asylum. A year after that, he
escaped, lay down on some railroad tracks up in the Bronx and was cut
into three ragged pieces by a slow-moving freight train.

As a dyed-in-the- wool Democrat of nearly 35 years' standing, I never
thought I'd say this, but thank goodness for Chief Justice John Roberts
and Associate Justices Anthony Kennedy, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and
Clarence Thomas. They are the majority on the first high court in our
nation's history to have the courage to tackle the Second Amendment
issue head on.

And if the statements they made and the questions they asked last week
as attorneys presented their oral arguments in the case are any
indication, D.C. residents and those throughout the country may be
liberated from the most outlandish and onerous gun control measures the
states and cities have been able to pass in the four decades since the
silly "Summer of Love" turned this great nation of ours on its head.

To begin with, the five justices clearly indicated that the "well
regulated militia" clause is indeed separate from the "keep and bear
arms" clause, and that alone is a huge step forward. How exactly they
will rule on the specifics of the Washington law is less clear, but any
easing of the restrictions it carries will represent a huge victory for
gun owners everywhere.

Once the court sets its precedent, New York's Sullivan Act seems a
likely next target for challenge by downtrodden gun owners whose rights
have been violated for far too long.

Gun control has been a losing issue for Democrats for decades, and in
national elections has cost them most of the western and southern
states, as well as helping to create "swing states" out of such
traditionally Democratic bastions as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and
Florida.

If Sen. John McCain has any sense, he'll use the Republican-appointe d
Supreme Court majority's decision, which will be handed down well before
November, as a major campaign issue, pointing to either Sen. Hillary
Clinton's or Sen. Barack Obama's past anti-gun stances.

And if Clinton and Obama have any sense -- which, thus far, they haven't
shown they have -- they will avoid the gun issue like the plague,
zipping their lips and acknowledging the Supreme Court's mandate to
interpret questions regarding the Constitution. If they don't, they'll
be handing the election to the GOP on a silver platter.

Since its ratification by congress on September 21, 1789, the Second
Amendment has never before been interpreted as to its actual meaning and
intent by the Supreme Court.

Hopefully, once the justices have done the right thing by Jefferson,
Washington, and the American people, the matter will not come up again
for another 219 years, at least.
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bumblethru
March 26, 2008, 7:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Guns kill people, the revisionists said. We have the police to protect
us, and the truths of 1776 have no place in 20th century society.
OH REALLY!! So where were the cops in Schenectady, Albany and every other community that has had shootings? Obviously the cops can not be everywhere. They ususally show up AFTER the incident. So I will choose to protect me, my family and my property MYSELF. They I will call the cops AFTER!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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JoAnn
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Quoted from Sombody

Applying the  logic of some post-I think the rental agreement for Yates Village should encourage/suggest the residents to get a gun-
This would most certainly lower the crime rate ?
You mention Yates Village with a very good point hearing of the increased crime lately. I remember many years ago,(like 40years ago) my aunt, uncle and 2 cousins lived there. I remember going there to visit and recall how nice the housing was and how quiet and well kept up it was.then. And everyone felt safe.


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JoAnn
March 29, 2008, 7:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

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Sombody
April 1, 2008, 7:57am Report to Moderator
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I found this particular view-


The grammatical structure of this one sentence Amendment creates two arguable meanings-

Does it mean a collective right of the people "to keep and bear arms" as members of a "well regulated militia?"
Or did it mean individual right for each American "to keep and bear arms?"

The FIRST  Amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law" respecting religion, or abridging the freedoms of speech, the press, assembly and petition. It would be reasonable  to expect that if a similar affirmative and clear intent was to be asserted by the Second Amendment it would have been written in a similar, clear grammatical manner. For example, one would have expected a provision like:

Congress shall make no law infringing on the right of the people to keep and bear arms


Oneida Elementary K-2  Yates 3-6
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