Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Gun Control/The Right To Bear Arms
Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community     Chit Chat About Anything  ›  Gun Control/The Right To Bear Arms Moderators: Admin
Users Browsing Forum
Googlebot and 115 Guests

Gun Control/The Right To Bear Arms  This thread currently has 6,393 views. |
13 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 » Recommend Thread
bumblethru
August 2, 2007, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
Cities seem to have more crime than the rural areas. Just look at the city of Schenectady as an example. Their crime is on the increase daily! Perhaps it is just the population is higher.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 15 - 181
senders
August 2, 2007, 8:28pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Quoted from Shadow
The only trouble with the ones in the city hunting money is that it's our money they're hunting.


The more dangerous ones are hunting other gangs money, blood and territory.....

We have nothing they want....they dont want a house with a mortgage, a lawn to mow, windows to wash, taxes to pay etc.....

We are just the clown set up at a fair...they get to take shots at us....if we happen to be in their neighborhood(territory)...however their territory expansion program is what would make me look twice....as I am on Helderburg Ave....

If it looks like we dont care----the territory is up for grabs......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 16 - 181
Admin
August 3, 2007, 5:00am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
18,484
Reputation
64.00%
Reputation Score
+16 / -9
Time Online
769 days 23 minutes
http://www.timesunion.com
Quoted Text
Americans have right to protect themselves
First published: Friday, August 3, 2007

With regard to Raymond Blanchard's July 22 letter about the right to keep and bear arms: I'm not sure what world Mr. Blanchard lives in, but in this one, it can take the police anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes to respond to a 911 call. I'm sorry, but that's more than enough time to be killed in your own home.
This area has seen more than a few home invasions lately. We need to protect ourselves and our families, in the legal and proper way our forefathers intended -- with arms. Hopefully we will never have to, but it's good to have the option of fighting back, not just giving up.
  
TONY BARBARO
Schodack
Logged
Private Message Reply: 17 - 181
Shadow
August 3, 2007, 7:02am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
11,107
Reputation
70.83%
Reputation Score
+17 / -7
Time Online
448 days 17 minutes
From what I've read in the paper these kids are stealing cash, jewelry, guns, silver, coin collections, and anything else of value that they can easily carry from homes in our area. In the city they look for drugs and money and so far we're lucky we dont have much of that in Rotterdam.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 18 - 181
bumblethru
August 3, 2007, 7:46pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
Most of these kids that get caught stealing in Rotterdam are not from Rotterdam. Many are from the city. They steal these items to sell on the street for money/drugs.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 19 - 181
Admin
August 4, 2007, 6:24am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
18,484
Reputation
64.00%
Reputation Score
+16 / -9
Time Online
769 days 23 minutes
http://www.timesunion.com
Quoted Text
Gun lobbyists react to what they know  
First published: Saturday, August 4, 2007

This is in respond to your July 25 editorial "In the crossfire":
  
It's not so much that the gun lobby is all powerful, they just know what Franklin D. Roosevelt knew. If you let the camel get his nose under the tent, pretty soon he's in the tent with you.

The smokers learned this first: Ban TV ads, then smoking here or there, then offices, then restaurants, then bars. In some places in this country you can smoke only at home and in your car.

The fast food industry is afraid it will be next, too. Pretty soon you may need a ration-like coupon for a Big Mac, if your cholesterol or blood pressure are deemed to be too high.

C.L. STILL
Rensselaer
Logged
Private Message Reply: 20 - 181
bumblethru
August 4, 2007, 7:54am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
And this my friends is government control at it's best!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 21 - 181
Shadow
August 4, 2007, 8:46am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
11,107
Reputation
70.83%
Reputation Score
+17 / -7
Time Online
448 days 17 minutes
At this rate we won't be able to do anything without government approval and will no longer have any rights or freedoms.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 22 - 181
senders
August 5, 2007, 9:48pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Pretty soon it will all be under the guise of 'healthcare for society'.......utopia??....keep drawing those 'sex offender circles' too.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 23 - 181
Admin
August 8, 2007, 5:57am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
18,484
Reputation
64.00%
Reputation Score
+16 / -9
Time Online
769 days 23 minutes
http://www.timesunion.com
Quoted Text
Guns are indeed a tool -- with one purpose  
First published: Wednesday, August 8, 2007

In response to Drew Holcomb's Aug. 2 letter, I don't know anyone who claims that guns are the cause of violence in our society. Rather, what is obvious is that guns make deadly violence much more likely, so that controlling and reducing their availability seems to me to be responsible and sane policy.
  
If we were to accept Mr Holcomb's ill-considered claim that "guns are simply tools," then we need to ask him: What is the purpose of this tool? I know what the purpose of a saw or screwdriver is. But a gun? Well it's only purpose is to shoot bullets which, depending on the shooter's aim, may kill a living being, maybe your spouse, child or friend. So this is simply a "tool" that everyone should have in their toolbox?

Read the Second Amendment: It says that the right to bear arms is related to and dependent upon the need to maintain a "well-regulated Militia." It does not say that access to guns should be everyone's unregulated right.

MICHAEL FOSTER
Niskayuna


Logged
Private Message Reply: 24 - 181
senders
August 8, 2007, 2:24pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
Well, I would ask Mr.Foster if he would like that tool in his toolbox for when the sex offender steps out of their circle......see, they spread fear tactics, claim they can protect us and then disarm us and take away our ability to reason......hhhmmm....what a circle jerk this is......

Folks , wake up,,,soon will come a day when Alzheimers will just be the norm for everyone....take away the ability to think and reason and the brain just wastes.......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 25 - 181
Shadow
August 8, 2007, 6:15pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
11,107
Reputation
70.83%
Reputation Score
+17 / -7
Time Online
448 days 17 minutes
First of all Mr Foster is interpreting the second amendment as he would like it to read not what it really says. As far as a militia is concerned, kick in my back door and the militia will appear right in front of your eyes. There are many people who hunt, target shoot, shoot competitively in gun clubs, and just plain protect their home and family. No Matter what you say Mr Foster it is my right to bear arms, and it's not the gun that kills it's the nut behind the trigger. We need to enforce the laws we already have on the books, do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally challenged individuals. If we follow the writers lead we wouldn't have knives, autos, baseball bats, rope, or anything else that has ever been used by a nut to kill people.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 26 - 181
bumblethru
August 8, 2007, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
30,841
Reputation
78.26%
Reputation Score
+36 / -10
Time Online
412 days 18 hours 59 minutes
Quoted Text
First of all Mr Foster is interpreting the second amendment as he would like it to read not what it really says. As far as a militia is concerned, kick in my back door and the militia will appear right in front of your eyes. There are many people who hunt, target shoot, shoot competitively in gun clubs, and just plain protect their home and family. No Matter what you say Mr Foster it is my right to bear arms, and it's not the gun that kills it's the nut behind the trigger. We need to enforce the laws we already have on the books, do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally challenged individuals. If we follow the writers lead we wouldn't have knives, autos, baseball bats, rope, or anything else that has ever been used by a nut to kill people.


Very well said Shadow!!! Very well said!!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
Logged
Private Message Reply: 27 - 181
senders
August 9, 2007, 8:57am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
29,348
Reputation
70.97%
Reputation Score
+22 / -9
Time Online
1574 days 2 hours 22 minutes
That's a fact.....truth is so refreshing.......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 28 - 181
Admin
March 18, 2008, 12:10pm Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
18,484
Reputation
64.00%
Reputation Score
+16 / -9
Time Online
769 days 23 minutes
http://www.foxnews.com
Quoted Text
Gun Control Advocates, Opponents Prepare for Supreme Court Argument
Tuesday, March 18, 2008
By Lee Ross

WASHINGTON —  The nine justices of the highest court in the land will meet Tuesday to hear arguments on who the Founding Fathers intended when they called for the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms: a well regulated militia or all individuals.

Tuesday's arguments in front of the Supreme Court — the focal point for gun rights advocates and foes alike — will be the first significant Second Amendment case in front of the high court since 1939. Supporters and opponents are equally excited and concerned by the prospect of what the court’s ruling — expected by June — could mean for individuals seeking clearer laws on the right to bear arms.

Washington, D.C., the nation's capital and one party to the case, argues its handgun ban “is a governmental duty of the highest order.” The contrary argument claims the city's law is “draconian” in its infringement of Second Amendment rights, which states, "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."


In its pre-argument briefs to the Supreme Court the parties to this case seem to have been writing to convince today’s nine foremost grammarians or historians. Much of the presentations to the Supreme Court focus on the grammatical meaning of the 27-word amendment.

The agitator at the center of this case is Dick Heller, a police officer for the federal government who in his job patrolling federal buildings carries a handgun. But D.C. law prohibits him and nearly every other resident from registering a handgun for personal use.

The agitator at the center of this case is Dick Heller, a police officer for the federal government who in his job patrolling federal buildings carries a handgun. But D.C. law prohibits him and nearly every other resident from registering a handgun for personal use.

Heller contends the handgun is necessary to defend himself at his home. The city’s law, on the books for more than three decades and one of the most stringent in the country, was passed to prevent violent and accidental gun violence. It’s a law the city and its supporters say is necessary and successful.

Heller’s lawsuit against the city was initially dismissed but the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a landmark 2-1 decision, overturned that ruling. It declared that the Second Amendment guarantees all individuals the right to keep and bear arms.

That ruling contravened decades of jurisprudence that held the Second Amendment right was exclusive to militias. The D.C. government appealed that ruling and in November the Supreme Court announced it would take the case.

The D.C. government presents three overarching arguments to the Court. First, the city contends the D.C. Circuit erred in its basic interpretation of the law.

“The text and history of the Second Amendment conclusively refute the notion that it entitles individuals to have guns for their own private purposes,” reads the appeal by the city to the high court. Specifically, it points to the language of the Second Amendment and argues both clauses taken individually or in concert can only be read to suggest its application to militias and not individuals.

As for its historical argument, the city concludes, “There is no suggestion that the need to protect private uses of weapons against federal intrusion ever animated the adoption of the Second Amendment.”

The city's attorneys detail the debate that preceded the enactment of the law as part of the Bill of Rights. In so doing, the city draws upon the works of William Blackstone, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and similarly worded legislation passed in the late 18th century. It argues the Founders’ “efforts surely were purposeful, and should not be ignored two centuries later.”

The city’s second argument is that the Second Amendment does not apply to District-specific legislation. It is a curious argument, at least politically, for a government keen on seeking equal representation in Congress.

“The Framers created a federal enclave to ensure federal protection of federal interests. They could not have intended the Second Amendment to prevent Congress from establishing such gun-control measures as it deemed necessary to protect itself, the president and this court.”

Its final argument rests on an analysis of the D.C. statute which the city says should be done on a “proper reasonableness” standard. The city argues its law “represent(s) the District’s reasoned judgment about how best to meet its duty to protect the public. Because that predictive judgment about how best to reduce gun violence was reasonable and is entitled to substantial deference, it should be upheld.”

In response, attorneys for Heller roundly disagree with the District’s positions with its most fundamental argument being that the lower court was correct in its judgment that the Second Amendment does in fact guarantee an individual the right to keep and bear arms.

They contend the D.C. gun ban is a “draconian infringement” of the Second Amendment. And they too present their grammatical and historical interpretation of the law writing there cannot be “doubts or ambiguities” about the meaning of the second clause or its relationship with the first.

“The words cannot be rendered meaningless by resort to their preamble. Any preamble-based interpretive rationale demanding an advanced degree in linguistics for its explication is especially suspect in this context,” the attorneys argue.

Heller’s lawyers also present its Founders-era evidence by quoting from George Mason, Blackstone and Madison. They also quote lawyer John Adams during his successful defense of British soldiers in the aftermath of the Boston Massacre.

In that trial Adams conceded that “here every private person is authorized to arm himself, and on the strength of this authority, I do not deny the inhabitants had a right to arm themselves at that time for their defense, not for offense."

They also dismiss as spurious the city’s argument that the Second Amendment does not have the effect of law in the District of Columbia. They acknowledge that Congress (and now the D.C. government under Home Rule) has the ability to make gun laws but must do so in accordance with the Constitution. Heller's lawyers draw a parallel with Congress’s power to run the city’s schools which they note cannot then be segregated or otherwise be operated contrary to Constitutional holdings.

Finally, they dismiss the city’s argument that the handgun ban is legal under a “proper reasonableness” standard. Instead they offer a “strict scrutiny” guideline for imposing restrictions on gun ownership.

“As our nation continues to face the scourges of crime and terrorism, no provision of the Bill of Rights would be immune from demands that perceived governmental necessity overwhelm the very standard by which enumerated rights are secured. Exorbitant claims of authority to deny basic constitutional rights are not unknown. Demoting the Second Amendment to some lower tier of enumerate rights is unwarranted. The Second Amendment has the distinction of securing the most fundamental rights of all — enabling the preservation of one’s life and guaranteeing our liberty. These are not second-class concerns.”

It is common for the Supreme Court to ask for the official position of the United States government. In this case, Solicitor General Paul Clement has been given 15 minutes to argue before the court. Lawyers for the District of Columbia and Heller will each have 30 minutes.

His brief, however, surprised many when it argued against a definitive ruling on the merits of the case. Instead the brief counsels the justices that the “better course” would be to remand the case back to the lower courts for further review. In so doing, Clement urges the court to acknowledge the “plain text” of the Second Amendment and recognize that the law does guarantee an individual right to keep and bear arms. He says such an interpretation “reinforces the most natural reading of the amendment’s text.”

Clement asks the court to remand the case out of fear that an outright affirmation of the lower court’s ruling could “cast doubt” on all existing federal firearms legislation.

“The Second Amendment, properly construed, allows for reasonable regulation of firearms.” Within that framework Clement offers to the court what he describes as an intermediate or heightened level of judicial review. He says the court’s handling of legally similar cases by remanding them for further proceedings represent a due diligence that should be followed in this case.

Of the more than 65 friend-of-the-court briefs filed on this case, one drew immediate attention for its dismissal of the solicitor general’s remand argument and because the lead name attached to it is that of Vice President Dick Cheney.

Cheney, in his position as president of the Senate, joined a brief with 55 senators and 250 House members to support Heller asking the court to fully affirm the lower court ruling. It created the most unusual circumstance of the vice president — not to mention majorities of both chambers of Congress — in opposition to the official position of the U.S. government.

“This court should give due deference to the repeated findings over different historical epochs by Congress, a co-equal branch of government, that the amendment guarantees the personal right to possess firearms. ... No purpose would be served by remanding this case for further fact finding or other proceedings.”

The members of Congress who joined the brief are mostly Republicans, including presumptive Republican presidential nominee and Arizona Sen. John McCain. A healthy number of gun-rights Democrats also joined in the brief.

Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, both vying for the Democratic presidential nomination, did not make their positions known to the court. Another brief by 17 other House members—all Democrats—and the non-voting delegate to the House from Washington, D.C. asked the court to uphold the city’s handgun ban.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 29 - 181
13 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 » Recommend Thread
|


Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread