he one problem with taking overtime is the fact it's going to raise the officers pay for that year and allow him to retire at a much higher pension rate that the city will have to pay for.
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You know that the NYS legislatures aren't going to change the way the police pension is calculated as that would cost them too many votes and the police unions all over the state would campaign against any legislature who votes to change it.
Shadow you are correct on both issues. What the hell gives cops all of these very unnecessary benefits that we have to pay for? Where do they get the idea that they are 'entitled'! Sure, we're greatful that we have law enforcement, but we are also smart enough to know when they are taking advantage of the system and us and using their position for political purposes. And there are clearly enough cops on the payroll now! All ya have to do is get them to work. Which obviously no one can do. And I ask the same question...who the hell negotiates these contracts? And why is a union necessary anyway? It is all pure unadulterated BS.
I am glad that at least this is being brought to light for all of us to read. Let us hope that Rotterdam does the same thing while negotiating their police contract this year.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
By PAUL NELSON, Staff writer Last updated: 8:31 p.m., Wednesday, December 19, 2007
SCHENECTADY The city's last effort to find a new police chief culminated five years ago with a deputy chief from the Colonie Police Department being named the city's top cop.
And with Michael Geraci having recently moved on to take a federal job, it seems the city wants to again look beyond the department command staff. City officials on Wednesday announced that the search is going statewide. At the same time, Public Safety Commissioner Wayne Bennett said Wednesday that the three assistant chiefs all of whom have expressed interest are still very much in contention to lead the undermanned 160-member department. ``The mayor has a responsibility to the department, and the people of the city to seek all the available talent interested in the job so he has the largest pool from which to select the most appropriate candidate,'' he said. Bennett said he presented Mayor Brian U. Stratton's plan of action Tuesday to county civil service officials who agreed to waive the residency requirements. The commissioner will soon begin working with the county to come up with a job description before advertising the job. Then in the coming months, the field of prospective candidates candidates will be winnowed down and finalists will have to take and pass the civil service exam in March. On the same day, a separate exam will be be taken by the three assistant police chiefs. By law, if all of them pass, then Mayor Brian U. Stratton must select one of the assistant chiefs, Bennett added. If one or more fail the exam, the list is not mandatory, and the the mayor is not obligated to make his selection from the list. Bennett was hired in the spring to clean up a beleaguered force which has long been dogged by wrongdoing and corrupt cops. In this decade alone, Eight Schenectady cops have been charged with a crime while a ninth officer resigned amid allegations he picked up and manhandled a prostitute when he was off-duty. Last month, Geraci quit to a go work for more money for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Paul Nelson can be reached at 454-5347 or by e-mail at pnelson@timesunion.com.
Troopers get paid more than 62,000.00 after the academy and a schenectady cop makes less than half that to start. I would imagine that for a 100% pay raise the schenectady cops would come to work 20 more days. You cant compare apples and oranges- well I guess you can, as long as you understand the differences. If you are going to say that troopers work 20 more days than a city cop- then look at the fact that city cops answer dozens more calls per shift than troopers for 1/2 the pay. Politicians over the years chose to pay less and give more time off- so it is easy for a politician to say- hey- troopers work more days- but it is even easier for a union official to say- okay= pay the city cops what troopers make and for that 100% raise they will work 10% more..............
I say: this is the job YOU picked, these are the hours, these are the benefits, you know what is required of yourself....get over it or hit the road......
however, when such an organization is controlled by another organization it gets murky and one no longer knows what is required of ones self......they work the system just like the career welfare recipients.....they learned that from those above and with seniority.......
civil unrest is an embarrasment to the top elected officials......those who control the guns(or video cameras in some instances) control the masses....
160 officers and 10-14 on duty on 2nd shift???? For the whole city.....what are the sheriff's patrol #'s???
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
I'm not saying they shouldnt go to work 220 days or more, but I dont blame the cops- I blame the elected officials who made the decisions over the years to pay less and give up the farm as far as time off. Now, we're in a position where we have to pay them more to get them to work more.
SCHENECTADY Search for police chief widens City not likely to fill position until June BY STEVEN COOK Gazette Reporter
Schenectady’s police chief search can now go statewide after a ruling from the county’s Civil Service Commission, officials said. The ruling also helps set in place a timeline to have a new chief in place, something that’s expected to take a while. Civil service exams have been set for March. With time allowed to get results back, a new chief is not expected to be appointed until at least June, city Public Safety Commissioner Wayne Bennett said Wednesday. Bennett called it important to cast a wide net for the job. Whoever gets it will help lead a department emerging from years of scandal. “Obviously this is a critical position in the city administration, given the fact that this agency has come under a great deal of criticism,” Bennett said. “The mayor has an obligation — to make sure that he avails himself of the widest possible pool of candidates.” Bennett said he expects to have an official job announcement out in two weeks. The announcement would include salary and qualifi cations. Former Police Chief Michael N. Geraci Sr., who left in October to take a federal job, made about $106,000. Then the exams come in March, one specifically for the department’s assistant chiefs and one for everyone else, Bennett said. The tests cover the same material. Each of the department’s assistant chiefs has expressed interest in the top spot, Bennett said. The three, Jack Falvo, Michael Seber and Mark Chaires, also applied for the job the last time it opened in 2002. That round saw a total of seven internal candidates. The spot ultimately went to Geraci, then an assistant chief in Colonie. Falvo served as interim chief during the search, while Chaires made the short list of three fi nal candidates. While the department had an interim chief last time, Bennett said he did not anticipate appointing one now. There was also no commissioner when the 2002 search began. “I am confident that we can continue to share the duties that were performed by Mike Geraci and maintain adequate supervision,” Bennett said. Supervision and management were the main problems cited in a critical report out last month on the department’s latest scandal. The report, created in the wake of the department scandal over missing drugs, found problems dated back decades that created a culture that invited abuse by dirty cops. The report was issued by a Schenectady County grand jury after former police detective Jeffrey Curtis was sent to prison. Curtis admitted taking drug evidence from evidence lockers for personal use. Bennett was appointed commissioner in the latest scandal’s wake. He had already made changes, including adding two captain positions. Mayor Brian Stratton made the request to the county civil service commission to open the search to candidates from outside the county. He designated Bennett to lead the search. Civil service rules also require that candidates be officers or troopers in New York state, making nationwide searches difficult. The search could also ultimately be solely an internal one, Bennett said. If all three assistant chiefs take and pass the exam, Stratton would be required under the rules to choose among them, excluding external candidates. If fewer than three pass, then the mayor could include other candidates.
Quoted from jnotar: ... I'm not saying they shouldnt go to work 220 days or more, but I dont blame the cops- I blame the elected officials who made the decisions over the years to pay less and give up the farm as far as time off. Now, we're in a position where we have to pay them more to get them to work more. ...
Public safety is one of the primary roles of government. Despite what Schenectady County Legislators Dicerbo and Johnson assert (view the video of the 11 Dec meeting of the Schenectady County Legislature on SACC-TV (assuming that the video wasn't "edited")), we DO have a serious crime problem in Schenectady County. Legislator Farley cited statistics collected statewide that indicate that Schenectady County has the third highest rate of violent crime per capita.
I agree with jnotar, that the terms of the Schenectady police contract shouldn't be blamed (solely) on the police union. I suspect that as jnotar contends, city officials decided to award the police officers with more time off (sick, personal, comp time) in lieu of higher salaries and/or overtime pay at a time of fiscal challenges.
I believe that a study should be performed of the compensation received by law enforcement officers in the surrounding cities, towns and at the state level (i.e., NYS Troopers). The base salaries of the Schenectady police must be consistent with those paid in other municipalities. An increase in salaries must come with a requirement that the city police work the number of hours put in by officers in other departments. Unlimited sick time must be ended. With the increase in base salaries, the officer's pension benefits will also increase.
The Schenectady police officers have a difficult job enforcing the rule of law in the City of Schenectady where crime is rampant. The number of calls and the potential to become involved in dangerous situations appears to be greater than those experienced by law enforcement in the surrounding towns. The law enforcement officers' compensation must reflect both the requirements and conditions of the job and the salaries offered by departments outside of the city. Otherwise, we will continue to see the departure of conscientious and hardworking police officers on the city force to the town police departments.
I agree with you Brad and more likely than not so will the arbitrator that the city and union will be meeting with. However, the city has been down that road before with arbitration and it hasnt resulted in mandating more work days. Arbitration will result in a 3- 3.5% raise and a litle more contribution for healthcare. The arbitrator wont get into the dozens of issues the city wants changed. The city council must know that- but maybe they think it is better to blame the contract on the arbitrators than to sit down and negotiate and get back some of the things most important to them. Common sense tells you that an arbitrator is not going to take many benefits away from the agency in the county that is currently the lowest paid, with the least benefits and answers more calls than every other department in the county combined while handling the most violent crime. Maybe I am wrong,but we will find out soon enough!
The arbitrators......who are they? who do they know? where do they come from? who pays them?......................do they have to register like lobbyists??
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Food deliveryman beaten by teens at Yates Village Case is reminiscent of 2000 beating death of pizza delivery man called to Yates apartment By JIMMY VIELKIND, Staff writer Friday, December 21, 2007
SCHENECTADY -- A deliveryman was beaten by a several assailants while delivering food to the Yates Village apartments Thursday evening, police said.
According to department spokesman Officer Kevin Green, the incident occurred around 5:55 p.m.. The deliveryman from the Lucky Wok on Van Vranken Avenue who was not identified was accosted by a group of five or six people when he left his car. Green said that several people who witnessed the attack intervened to break it up. The deliveryman was taken to Ellis Hospital with facial and rib injuries. His condition was not immediately available. The assailants fled by foot south on Van Vranken Avenue, Green said. No one has been arrested, and it is not clear if any money was taken during the attack. In November 2000, three teens ages 16 and 17 beat a pizza delivery man to death after they placed a bogus food order to an apartment in Yates Village. The delivery man arrived with pizzas and $15 in his pocket. The teens robbed and beat him to death with baseball bats. They robbed and beat another man a week earlier.
Public safety is one of the primary roles of government. Despite what Schenectady County Legislators Dicerbo and Johnson assert (view the video of the 11 Dec meeting of the Schenectady County Legislature on SACC-TV - assuming that the video wasn't "edited"), we DO have a serious crime problem in Schenectady County. Legislator Farley cited statistics collected statewide that indicate that the City of Schenectady has the third highest rate of violent crime per capita in New York State.
Interesting conversation and I also wonder how the arbitration will pan out. It seems that a return to the basics is necessary. One usually goes to work only for an incentive, ie: paycheck. When the incentive is greater to stay home as in the police situation then why on earth wouldn't they. Put the incentive back on putting in a full days work rather than making it worthwhile to stay home. I think the majority of Schenectady Police work hard and have a dangerous job. They deserve money to perform the job and the risks that go along with it. I have an enormous respect for all the police departments and the good things they do. Imagine the events we never hear about, maybe not related to crime, but helping the community. Just being there.
SCHENECTADY Police challenge discipline policy Union says safety chief is violating contract BY STEVEN COOK Gazette Reporter
A challenge to Public Safety Commissioner Wayne Bennett’s edict taking control of police discipline has been filed, a state labor relations official confirmed Friday. The improper practice claim was filed with the state Public Employment Relations Board by the city Police Benevolent Association and is now being considered. An administrative law judge is expected to hear the case, with a ruling expected by spring, offi - cials said. The claim was fi rst filed in October. But more recently, the department has seen its first officer discipline case since the new city policies were outlined over the summer. Bennett declined to discuss details of that case, other than to say it was not extremely serious and did not merit an immediate suspension. “It’s not an extremely serious one. Nevertheless misconduct has been alleged,” Bennett said. “It will now be up to the attorneys to address the individual challenges.” City officials have pegged discipline as a major target in digging the department out of years of scandal. A November grand jury report cited supervision and management as leading to a culture that invited abuse by dirty cops. Arbitrators, Mayor Brian U. Stratton said previously, hurt the ability to discipline by secondguessing, and that erodes public confidence. Union officials are fighting the move on contractual grounds. Lt. Robert Hamilton of the PBA argues the system has been in place for 40 years and cannot be changed unilaterally. The system in the contract, he argues, is already pro-management, with the city picking a hearing officer to determine guilt or innocence. The union could then go to an independent arbitrator to contest the sentence only. The independent arbitrator, he said, is key. “All we’re asking for is a fair hearing,” Hamilton said. “We don’t see the fairness [in Bennett’s policy.]” Only a handful of cases even get that far, he argued. Two officers have been restored to work by arbitrators in the past 10 years, and one of them remains on the force. City officials, including Stratton, have argued that the arbitrator system hinders discipline by second-guessing decisions by management, those qualifi ed to make decisions on police matters. Bennett had planned to move forward despite the possibility of court action. When officers are charged with noncriminal violations of department policy, they will defend themselves in hearings open to the public. Bennett will serve as judge in those hearings. It was unclear if the current discipline case would make it that far. State labor relations officials said there was nothing barring a contested policy from being enforced. But if that policy is overturned, the action is as well. City Corporation Counsel John Van Norden declined to comment Friday, citing ongoing talks related to the police contract. Bennett announced he was taking the discipline power in June, but did not begin setting down the process until August. He said he waited to officially enact his disciplinary process because he knew the state Legislature was trying to stop municipalities from levying discipline in ways that were not agreed to in police contracts. The attempt came after a 2006 Court of Appeals case. Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s July veto of those efforts gave Bennett the green light. Union attorney Michael Ravalli said Friday the city’s interpretation was incorrect. “The city of Schenectady’s reading of a relatively recent Court of Appeals case is overly broad,” he said.
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