From this quote, are we to believe that the vote is to keep REMS in business? It is not the role of government to sustain operations of any business. Further, I thought that Del Gallo stated that the vote is to create an ambulance tax district but that the service contract will be put out to bid. It sounds as though even the board members don't know or agree on the intent of the referendum.
I would have preferred the vote to be on Primary Election Day in September so that voters would know exactly where each candidate stood before the general election. Will Parisi, Salamone and Calder state their positions prior to the election so that the electorate will know their views on increasing the size and cost of government? Rotterdam residents should demand an answer not on the holding of the referendum, but about their positions on creating the tax district.
The purpose of the vote was to ask voters if a taxing district should be formed to fund ems. It is REMS who ASSUMED that the vote was to fund their operation...and this was the basis of Ms. DiLeva's comment...that regardless of your position, both REMS and the voters should have clarification as to exactly what they are voting for...that based on the language of the ballot question, voters should know that if they were to pass the measure it would not guarantee funding REMS specifically...and of course this was the basis for REMS supporting the postponement of the vote...nevermind the confusion, unanswered questions, the obvious disenfranchisement of untold numbers of voters...the fact that we don't even need to have the vote ! They want the question to ask voters if the district should be formed to fund REMS as their ems provider, which cannot be done. You would think that once the language of the referendum was finalized, over a month ago, that REMS would have been the first one in line for a copy of the ballot question...but there I was, all alone in that line...wondering how long it would take REMS to revolt when I saw their absence on the ballot.
The unnecessary, and hopefully never-to-be vote on this matter should have been scheduled for November, as originally promised...when the largest number of voters will be at more than the one poll the town planned to use...another tactic to minimize the opposition vote. Primary turnout would not even come close to a November turnout...and the larger the turnout, the more likely the measure would be defeated...precisely why this scam vote was always intended to be held in the middle of summer. Fortunately there is finally just enough Board Members who are seeing through this scheme and won't tolerate it.
Hello, and let me introduce myself to the group, as this is my first post. I'm essentially nobody. I'm not involved in politics, I'm not part of anyone's agenda, and I have no love for this particular town administration, nor its predecessors. I personally think politicians are filthy, self-serving leeches, and I essentially loathe the process. However, I'm a fairly intelligent person, I own a home in Rotterdam, provide well for my family, and have a keen interest in keeping this town the best place possible for raising my family.
With that having been said, one of the things I am most interested in is public safety, and I have looked into this whole REMS/Mohawk debacle with some interest. I wish to point out some observations, based upon some information I obtained, some research I performed, and piecing together some of the more valid points made in this forum.
Mohawk Ambulance is a for-profit organization. Their goal is to make money for the corporate officers. They do so by providing an essential service in terms of EMS transports, but apparently the real money is in the facility-to-facility transports, and they aggressively pursue contracts of exclusivity with various institutions to do these things. I'm told it is the "bread-and-butter" of a for-profit service. Makes sense, from a profit margin perspective.
Also, they seem to concentrate their areas of EMS operation to cities... Schenectady, Albany, Cohoes. They had done EMS transports in the city of Watervliet until a short time ago, until the Watervliet fire department obtained their own ambulances to serve that city. I'm told that the city approved this because it can offset expensive firefighter operations costs, but if they were satisfied with the services rendered, why change? The Troy fire department axed Mohawk (as well as Empire ambulance, another for-profit ambulance service operating in Troy) about a decade ago when they got their own ambulance... I suspect for the same reasons as Watervliet did.
There are some small pockets of Rensselaer county where Mohawk operates as the only EMS service, and there are areas where they serve as the paramedic service for township rescue squads that do not provide this service.
Interestingly enough, the areas where Mohawk is the sole EMS ambulance transport service (most notably Albany and Schenectady) they only provide the ambulance, and the fire department paramedics provide essentially all the medical care. There is the anomaly of Glenville/Scotia, where Mohawk is the only ambulance and paramedic provider for the whole town. I have learned that the Scotia firemen are becoming paramedics soon, and will be doing all of the medical care in their community, retaining Mohawk as the transporter. That is interesting, and I have not determined a motivation for this.
There is also the anomaly of Niskayuna, where that community is split in half. Half the Town is serviced by an ambulance service and paramedics from the Niskayuna fire department, and the other half is serviced by Mohawk out of their State St. station. Interestingly enough, I learned that the Niskayuna School District does not use Mohawk; they intentionally call the fire department who responds to all medical calls in any school in that town, regardless of if it’s in their district or not. I think that says something.
Now I don't know a green ambulance from a red one or a blue one. And I just learned of the difference between an EMT and a paramedic (it is considerable, mind you). But I do know one thing... when one of my family members became ill last year, I called 911, and I was terrified. Within two minutes, a Rotterdam officer was at my door, followed by a Rotterdam paramedic and the ambulance, who arrived in separate vehicles almost simultaneously. All were arrived in less than 4 minutes, and provided expert care to my loved one. I have nothing to say but their presence was swift, their performance was excellent, and my very ill loved one was aided in expert fashion. In retrospect, after my terror subsided, I was very impressed... Four people (an officer, a paramedic, and two members of the ambulance) worked cohesively and fluidly, addressed not only the medical needs of my loved one, but also took the time to explain to me what was occurring, and what the next steps would be. That is not just customer service, but true compassion. I am indebted to those four professionals for so profoundly affecting my life in such a short time.
You just can’t put a price on that.
I think that when a responsible citizen questions a government process in which they are unfamiliar, looking into the practices of other comparable area communities is prudent. Regarding a community’s public safety provisions, these are questions easily asked, and information easily obtained by the contentious citizen. Guilderland has a local EMS ambulance service, as well as a town-run paramedic service. Bethlehem has two local EMS ambulance services, and also a town-contracted paramedic service provided through the county. The town of Colonie has a department of town government for EMS, much like a police or fire department, and is apparently regarded as the premier EMS service in the area. The entire county of Saratoga, including the city of Saratoga Springs, and big towns like Clifton Park, Burnt Hills, and Malta, are serviced by local EMS services. There are no for-profit ambulance companies operating in any of these communities. I also learned that ambulance taxing districts exist in different forms in most of these communities – with the exception of Colonie, who funds their service through the general tax levy.
So, what we have in Rotterdam is a system almost identical to what every other community is currently doing, and these communities seemingly haven’t any plans to change their structure.
My grandfather once told me “there’s no such thing as a free lunch,” and as I advance in my years, I hold that simple tenet to be more and more self-evident. I also know that living in suburbia has several advantages over our urban counterparts… Largely safer communities with responsive and proactive public safety, better schools, and more involvement by the electorate in decision-making as it pertains to such things.
I want to live in suburbia. I am willing to pay to live in suburbia, and with that payment comes the inherent benefits I outlined. I want the security of knowing that if I ever again need to call 911, help is just a couple of minutes away. That costs money – the level of security we demand costs money to support, and the highly trained men and women manning such agencies need to be justly compensated and supported. If it means spending an additional $25 a year to ensure such protection (which is the projected levy per household for the ambulance district, I’m told) stationed in my community and ready to respond, then I will simply work another hour this year to support that endeavor. That is my choice.
Most of us are “penny wise, yet pound foolish.” From what I have learned, there is no such thing as a “free lunch” as proposed by Mohawk Ambulance Service, and certainly no conceivable way that this corporation can turn a profit by performing this service for free under the terms as outlined in this forum, let alone returning money to the Town. Just staffing the proposed two ambulances “dedicated” to Rotterdam will cost $700,000.00 annually (do the math… $20/hr x 2 crew members x 8760 (hours in a year) is approximately $350,000.00, times two ambulances).
It is my prediction that Mohawk, if awarded the contract, will not station ambulances in Rotterdam – as they do not station ambulances in Glenville or Niskayuna. They will answer Rotterdam calls from their State St. location, and supplement the earning potential of that workforce by utilizing them to perform duties as required in their other contracts. As a businessperson, this is what I would do – as idle hands make me no money – and these providers and vehicles are revenue-generating assets of the corporation. Response times to our community will likely suffer as a result, and the very principles of public safety inherent to a blissful life in suburbia will be disregarded.
I’m a card-carrying republican. I spend my days listening to conservative commentators like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. I never vote democratic in state or national elections solely on principal. I support holding the line on taxes, and keeping more money in my pocket. But I bought a car recently… and I opted to pay a couple more bucks a month to get the car I wanted, with the bells and whistles I identified as desirable, but not necessary. It isn’t lavish, mind you, but it is certainly more than I need for a basic conveyance, and I was willing to pay for these luxuries.
I consider public safety services to be both necessities of government and luxuries. When I called 911, the government was obligated to respond. They were not obligated to arrive within two minutes, but they did, and the life of my very ill loved one was saved as a direct result. I am willing to pay for that luxury of service level and security. There are other, better ways to save money and try to hold the line on tax increases.
I will support the tax district for EMS services, if that is the direction the Town wants to go, but I do emphatically support the funding of EMS services through government to outline and ensure a set level of service as a part of essential public safety expenditure. I also support the retention of a local not-for-profit community agency as the provider of that service. I do not support the privatization of public safety services that are life-saving endeavors. Quite honestly, I’d most like to see a Town-run ambulance service like Colonie’s, as my research showed that agency as the most comprehensive model I’ve seen locally, with the most oversight and regulatory ability by the Town government. In the absence of that, I think what we currently have is a far better option.
We have a responsive and respected police agency, many dedicated fire fighters in our community, and we need an EMS presence that mirrors these other disciplines. Let’s support the one we have, and not mess with a system that is longstanding, community based, and – in my experience – working just fine.
Bigger government? Yes, I suppose, and that does violate my principals of state/federal politics as an informed voter. But, at a local level, where the services have a closer impact to the quality of life we enjoy as Americans, and residents of blissful suburbia, these simple things have a more immediate and profound impact. And, there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
The first responders will still be the police paramedics which will perform the life saving treatment first, it really doesn't matter which ambulance transports the patient to the hospital once the patient is stabilized. Put the EMS service out for bid without a vote or creation of a tax district, a contract with a response time and quality of service, and let the lowest bid with the ability to meet the requirements provide the service.
JQP, I'm sure that there are other residents who share you same thoughts. I, do not.
First, you left out a very important element....REMS would be a bailout for starters. They already have gotten hundreds of thousand of taxpayer's dollars and are still in the hole to the IRS. Not to mention their request for a grant (more taxpayer's money) for over $200K!! Their past record is one of irresponsibility and the lack of business sense.
Second, I'm glad you had a good experience with them. I didn't!! But that is not my deciding factor. For years, where has REMS been? Mohawk was the main ambulance service for a few years. Only and until this issue of privatizing came to light, REMS was almost non existent in town. Now they are doing what 'real businesses' should do......compete. I'm leery of the fact that 'if' REMS became rotterdam's sole provider, they, like other tax paid entities, they would become a forever inflating tax and they could become complacent
Third, I was lead to understand that Mohawk would take over the REMS facility and hire the REMS employees and return $70K to the town yearly. If that is contractual, than that is a win win for both parties. And it would be a contract renewed yearly.
Forth, I am a capitalist and believe in private business to provide an excellent service/product, grow the tax base and employ others. Which, by the way is exactly what rotterdam needs.
Fifth, there is no free lunch. Mohawk would bill insurance companies per call/individual. They will bill the individual for any out of pocket expenses. And that is what ALL private business can rely on. If they need a new ambulance, their insurance rates increase, gas prices go up, employee benefits go up.......they will have to fill the bill WITHOUT reaching into the taxpayer's pocket!!
Sixth, rotterdam DOES NOT need even the slightest tax increase now or in the future. People are being nickeled and dimed to death with increased taxes on everything. If REMS can be a private, self sustaining entity that can survive WITHOUT tax dollars, than let them throw their hat in the ring and compete to be part of the bidding process.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
The ambulance racket has been going on for a long time. The ambulance provider a town chooses has little to do with response time and service and more to do with politics.
For all the eloquent wording and persuading thoughts, you fail to mention that the REMS have been receiving funding annually during the budget process for years. Why would you support a taxing district for an ambulance service that isn't even close to solvency? Why not hold the REMS feet to the fire every year during the budget process, until they become solvent?
As a so-called republican conservative, that would run counter to your core republican beliefs. You are rewarding fiscal irresponsibility with a guarantee of public funding. Why?
I guess to address these, I have to delthe into econonics 101 a little bit. As we all know, no corporation can have a monopoly on a product or service - just ask Microsoft. Monopolies are illegal... but oligopolies are not. This is, essentially, the monopoly of a utility. and we as the end user have no free-market choice in our power, cable, and hard-line telephone providers. We can opt for alternative technology (i.e. Vonage) but NiMo and TWC are it as far as power and cable. There is a goverment entity making that decision for you.
The ambulance service to a community is much the same thing, and same process. The NYS Department of Health, and some regional bodies across the state grant licenses (called "certificates of need") to ambulance service providers to operate in specific well-defined service areas. These are limited to avoid competition, much like a variant of an oligopoly. This is seemingly well-intended legislation that prohibits an ambulance from poaching on another's terrotory.
As it stands currently, the only ambulance agencies with permission to operate in the towns of Rotterdam and Princetown are REMS and Mohawk. Since REMS does not seek any contractual relationships or facility-to-facility transports, that makes Mohawk a monopoly holder on such endeavors. As I stated in my previous post, the profit generation in this is the contract facility-to-facility transports, and not the EMS side of the ambulance business. Running an EMS service - even as an arm of your corporate structure - is not a profit generating venture. At best, it's a break even, but most often, the for-profit ambulance provider balances the red on the EMS side with the more considerable black from the contracts and facilities transports. I'm no expert, but I am willing to bet that the accountants who do the taxes for the for-profit companies have lots of ways to find write-offs from the losses of the EMS transport arm.
If Rotterdam votes such to force REMS to close down by awarding the contract to Mohawk, then Mohawk will have a true monopoly. Yes, there may be provisions for response times (the national standard is listed as 90% of calls should be answered within 9 minutes), but what is the recourse if Mohawk defaults on these provisions? As a for-profit monopoly holder, Mohawk is in the very desirable position to have no competition.
While certainly another ambulance agency may emerge and apply with the NY Dept of Health for permission to operate here, but since they do not have a presence in the area, they must relocate a bese of operation here. They must obtain crew, ambulances, materials, relationships with communities, marketing, and seek contracts. It would be a very expensive process - almost one that is self-defeating. There are approximately 2,000 EMS calls in Rotterdam annually (based upon the fact that the latest REMS marquee on Princetown Rd states that they have answered 1200 so far this year. I'll be willing to bet that the money can't be good enough to offset this considerable investment to provide competition to Mohawk.
The purpose of the tax district is to serve in lieu of a municipal contract to make up the difference in operational expenses for an EMS service which they can't recoup through insurance billing. The NFP ambulance collects whatever insurance monies are available, while the FP ambulance send people to collections agencies for the balance between the billable and the remitted through insurance.
We seem to have a whole bunch of fire departments in our town, many with extravagant quarters, a litany of very expensive firefighting vehicles, and a structure that allows them to set essentially their own tax rates. I pay almost $300.00 a year for fire tax, and these departments have no payroll, as they are all volunteer. Like I said, I'm all for public safety, but this is a little harsh - don't you think?
But we really can't privatize fire, and you definitely can't privatize police. And even if we could, we probably shouldn't. These are essential services that should be provided by local government. I feel EMS is one as well. It is not a money game - It's a life game.
Privatize the highway workers - or at the very least, combine them to be countywide, like they're trying to do with emergency dispatch. I'll bet you could save some real money there.
We seem to have a whole bunch of fire departments in our town, many with extravagant quarters, a litany of very expensive firefighting vehicles, and a structure that allows them to set essentially their own tax rates. I pay almost $300.00 a year for fire tax, and these departments have no payroll, as they are all volunteer. Like I said, I'm all for public safety, but this is a little harsh - don't you think?
But we really can't privatize fire, and you definitely can't privatize police. And even if we could, we probably shouldn't. These are essential services that should be provided by local government. I feel EMS is one as well. It is not a money game - It's a life game.
I agree with tbv.....good post and great points. The point you bring up about the fire depts is and excellent argument against another taxing district like the one being proposed for an ambulance service. Sure it is starting out cheap enough, like all government programs do. But as the years go on it will grow into another huge tax imposed on the taxpayers, just like the fire dept's. And you are correct about just how extravagant these fire houses have become. Just look at So. Schenectady's. Shameful! But there is no alternative.
There is an alternative for an ambulance service. An alternative that will cost NOTHING to the taxpayers. An alternative that will be held responsible and accountable for their service, not only by a town binding contract, but also to the insurance companies and the people who will use the service.
Municipalities can no longer afford or take a chance on imposing taxing districts that grow in leaps and bounds, as they ALL do! REMS has already taking hundreds of thousand of taxpayer's money and is still in debt with the IRS. REMS has also let it be known that they have many expensive upgrades that will be needed. REMS has yet to show the taxpayers that they can be a financially solvent business.
And let me reiterate that REMS was just about AWOL for a very long time and Mohawk was handling pretty much all of Rotterdam. Again it wasn't until late that REMS appeared on the scene.
This is not personal. This is about fiscal responsibility. This is about a time in this state and country's economy where we can no longer carry these ever growing tax burdens. It is time to privatize what we can.
May I also suggest to Mohawk, to offer a presentation on their services at a town board meeting or a satellite location so people can hear the alternative.
We are talking about an ambulance service here. If both can provide the same service......why would the taxpayer pay for aservice that will continually grow if they don't have to? It's really a no brainer!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Your posts like everyone have already said are thorough, enlightening, and appreciated since they stimulate thoughtful dialogue. I would agree with you that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and have weighed the monopoly concerns. The expenses you site for a year would be the expenses of any ambulance service, REMS, Mohawk, whoever. So that expense doesn't favor one service over another, let's just call it a "constant". Many have eloquently come forward in support of REMS, but who is opening their pocketbook and cutting a check to make them sovent? No individuals are, the Town is bailing them out. This bailout or subsidizing will continue with a tax district. There is no control of the budget process if the district was in place and REMS was the provider. What is fair? A flat tax for everyone, or based on assessed value? Who sets the limits for what REMS asks for budget wise? The proposed tax district is similar to a school tax, it doesn't matter whether you have children or not, you still pay the tax based on your property value. If the Town wants to partially subsidize REMS, that has and is being done without a tax district. I believe it is a philosophical issue, that REMS is/was in financial difficulty at their own doing, that they went to the Town for financial help, and they are ramrodding the tax district to guarantee they are the sole provider. At least that is what I gathered of Joe Vanderken's understanding of the Town's support of REMS. Admittedly more info needs to be deseminated from REMS and Mohawk. If the Mohawk offer is still valid, it is very attractive even if they do not provide monies back to the Town.
Avon: Thank you for the kind words, and thoughtful diaglogue is my intent. I am a general disbeliever in anything that includes the words "money" and "politicians" in the same sentence. Nothing is ever as it seems, and it appears that this particular administration is anything but transparent in their motivations and practices. I think the confusion regarding the composition and intent of the proposed ambulance taxing district, hapless and apathetic attitude of the board members on this issue, and the length of time it has taken - transcending several different administrations - is evidence enough.
I guess my point is my core belief that you just don't mess with public safety, as there is no more fundamental service provided by a government at any level. When you get to be a community the size of Rotterdam, the provision of public safety becomes intrinsic, and the services cannot be safely outsourced. Rotterdam provides a police department because we choose to. Many communities - some far larger than ours - outsource that fundamental service to state, county, or inter-municipal agencies. Rotterdam expects a level of service and provides a local department that provides it. We as constituents have access to that department's performance expectations through our elected officials, who, essentially, employs the members of the police department.
The fire departments are, fundamentally, the same thing. They elect commissioners that oversee the operations of the department, and set the tax rate for that district. It's not as open a process, because the electorate is largely uninvolved in the politics of the department commissioners, and those meetings and elections are largely ignored. Yet, it is a considerable tax for the homeowner, and it seems to me that the practices of fire department politics are about as transparent as a lead wall, and far less than school boards. In other communities, the fire departments are divisions of local government, and are answerable through our regularly elected officals. Probably better, if you ask me. These departments seem to have robust budgets, and little to no accountability - yet no one ever seems to take them to task on this.
I still feel that EMS is a fundamental provision of public safety, and should be addressed through the elected officials directly. The outsourcing of EMS in our town will limit the accessability and accountability with the contract provider. I agree that Rotterdam does already outsource its EMS to REMS, which is a private corporation. However, their sole purpose is to provide EMS service, and not to maximize their earning potential through the pursuit of facilities contracts. They're supposed to wait, and be ready to respond when someone calls for service. Being a for-profit service, and "idle hands (i.e. idle profit generating ambulances) making no money," the risk is run that the profit generation pursuit will supercede the necessity to be ready for the emergency call.
Again... I'm jaded by the experience of my summoned EMS providers arriving in less than four minutes. That has now become my expectation. Perhaps this is a delusion, but if you told me that I can expect this level of service for $25 dollars a year, I'm all for it. But, I also am a sucker for all the preventative maintenance guarantees for my big-ticket electronics. I buy them with the hopes that I will never need them, because I had my first bigscreen TV go sour on me, and it cost me an arm and a leg to get it fixed. Now, I buy the guarantees with the full knowledge that I'm probably subsidizing someone else's repairs, but I like the security in knowing that I won't be fleeced for several hundred dollars if I need a repair.
So, I will not be swayed, despite all the articulate arguments to the contrary, that EMS is an arm of public safety, which should be provided by the government to assure the health, safety, and security of all members of a community, and that it should be provided in a manner that is open and accountable to the electorate. The problem with EMS is that it has become bastardized by medicare, insurance companies, and profiteering. Politics is dirty enough without all these other influlences.
I don't think I posed this question in this forum, but it certainly has crossed my mind... Rotterdam already provides a town-run paramedic service who everyone seems to be pretty happy with. Why do they not have ambulances? Wouldn't that essentially solve this problem?
Your posts sound an awful lot like Tony J. at the Wed. TB meeting. I also noticed you just joined the forum on Saturday. Somewhat coincidental that your entry onto the forum seems to coincide with the latest REMS debacle Wed. night. Your benchmark for emergency response of 4 minutes may have been more the result of professional dispatching that we are now going to lose vs. quality of ambulance service. A lot has to do with timing, if there were ambulances out on other calls, your personal story you shared might not have had the same outcome and you may today have a different opinion. The seniors from the senior center have an incentive because they were never billed for the costs outside of insurance coverage, so of course they like that treatment. Those days are over and I doubt they understand that. It makes more sense that if you receive service you pay the additional costs that insurance doesn't cover. Why should non-users be taxed annually to offset these costs? If it is a question about quality of service from one provider compared to another, then that's a different story. The following link provided by littlesal http://www.bbb.org/upstate-new.....-ny-66005325/#rating indicates Mohawk has been in business for 46 years and they have an A+ rating. Additionally, they provide Advanced Life Support which exceeds REMS capability. I am sure there are many Mohawk stories where their staff saved patients that "crashed" in transport. The track record of REMS does not match up with Mohawk . . . . IMHO
I will say that I have nothing but the utmost respect for the 911 dispatcher that answered my call. He was professional, calming, and assuring to me, and kept me on the phone until help arrived. I can't possibly fathom how difficult it is to receive troubling calls for help from people at their worst moments. I don't truly understand the entire county proposal to merge all the dispatchers, as I have not done any research on this process. I should, and I plan to, and I will reserve commenting on it until I can form a more informed opinion.
So, if I can ask for clarification, you're saying that you feel it's appropriate to bilk senior citizens for money owed to the for-profit ambulance provider for EMS service? What about the uninsured? They get to pay the whole balance themselves or get taken to collections or small claims if they cannot afford to pay? With such a dense population of senior citizens - who are largely more involved in the political process than younger people - I'm surprised that this is even being considered. Again, money and profiteering being the root of the evil here - right alongside the political process. This is a public safety issue, period.
Just a thought: REMS was probably free that night cause Mohawk was already answering calls in the town that REMS couldn't get to fast enough.
1200 calls so far this year responded to by June 1??? That's on average 6-7 calls per day. I don't believe for one minute that REMS has staffing to handle that kind of call volume, ESPECIALLY when Mohawk is already responding (by REMS own admission) to ~40-50% of the calls within the town.